Wichester PDX or Hornady CD for CCW?

[throttletony]

Hi all - just looking for some input here. I currently carry some Winchester PDX-1 (180 gr) in my .40. In general, I like Hornady ammo also. I've seen some good vids on both. Is there much difference? Or is it really just "six of one, half a dozen of the other?"

Also, between the 165 gr and the 180 gr, what are the real world trade-offs between the two in a CQ/self-defense application?

I'll post some vid links below for those interested.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc5ToYdcq7A[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkOV3MJI1FU&feature=relmfu[/ame]

Thanks,
Tony

 

[turnerdye1]

Personally I like to go with the heavier stuff. It most realistic situations if your are going to have to shoot someone itll be within 10 yards. And at 10 yards you arent really going to have to worry about bullet drop and all that. Now will a 180gr drop more then a 165gr at 100 yards? Probably but realisticly your not gonna be shooting in SD at 100 yards.

Go with the heavier stuff and get as much as you can. Buy a box to shoot through to make sure its reliable in your gun though.

Now with that being said... Is the 165gr a bad choice? No not really. It will do the job just as well as the 180gr. Its all personal preference. Its like the 9mm arguement of whether or not to shoot 115gr or 147gr hollow points. So must of us go with the medium 124gr stuff. I know I do.

 

[NIFT]

Per Dr. Gary K. Roberts, Letterman Army Institute of Research (LAIR), these are the rounds that pass muster with the seven FBI terminal performance. Hornady CD has yet to make the list.


The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P JHP bonded (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Ranger Bonded 124 gr +P JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

 

[mertbl]

I carry the pdx1 but it was more a decision of local availability over terminal ballistics.

 

[peberly400]

Honestly, my testing I did like either of the rounds. I will only carry Speer gold dots, or Ranger T's

Out of your two choices, Go with the heavier bullet.

 

[cosermann]

Link to above Dr. Roberts' info for reference:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

 

[blamecharles]

Also read Massad Ayoob, very knowledgeable and respected.

 

[NIFT]

Also read Massad Ayoob, very knowledgeable and respected.

I met Ayoob at the inaugural Bianchi Cup invitational, where we were both contestants. It was just a "pleased to meet you."

Since then, Ayoob has become an enigma to me. Sometimes, what he says is spot on; at other times, he is quite the opposite. That has held true with his writings on terminal ballistics.

The two most knowledgeable experts on terminal ballistics are Dr. Roberts, and Supervisory Special Agent Buford Boone at the FBI Ballistic Research Facility in the Firearms Training Unit at Quantico. SSA Boone will only release information to LE agencies, but Doc Roberts is not under such constraints.

Stick with Doc Roberts, and you will get the "straight scoop" without biases inherent in the work of gun writers.

 

[bluewraith]

Not sure if the CD in .40 suffers the same problem as mine in .45 do, but I switched to Winchester Ranger T because the CD would deform when rechamberimg a round after cleaning.

 

[Disposable Heart]

All in all:

The PDX1 is the better choice twixt the two mentioned in the OP.
1. Bonded: Better against barriers. People will spout off about "humph, I will never shoot through autoglass or sheet rock or similar" but you never know. Have the capability.
2. I have personally seen Hornady Critical Defense not ignite at the range. ALL calibers. And not just the older stuff. I am supremely disappointed in Hornady for even making this stuff.
3. Sorry fella, but the water tests on those youTube sites are Meh at best. I am made of water, but a bit less homogenuous that it...

 

[Adamz04]

I don't like either pdx1 or hornady, my personal experience
With pdx1 in 9mm ( hollow points never opening) and hornady to always felt underpowered and and never expanded very wide. I found federal hst to be the best for me followed by gold dots then maybe Corbon dpx.
Those bullets perform better that is indisputable but if the bad guy really notices the difference that remains to be seen

 

[throttletony]

All in all:
...
3. Sorry fella, but the water tests on those youTube sites are Meh at best. I am made of water, but a bit less homogenuous that it...

I agree that the test in video in the OP is not all that great. It's just meant to give some reference.


Thanks for all the great responses yall. Great info. This is why I love INGO

 

[Tactical Dave]

I carry ranger t series 147 in my 9 and ranger t series 230+p in the 45.

I do have some smaller stuff but for EDC I allways prefer weight over a lighter faster round. Hence the 230 +p. side note 45 is full size so it can use the +p but 9 is a sc so plus anything I feel does not enough barrel to use.

In a full size 9 I'd like a 147 +p.

I have te same opinion for any other cal. Weight first speed second, the chances of having to use a pistol past even 25 towards is minute IMO.

 

[Sticky]

There probably isn't much difference.

I'd go with the bullet that holds together the best. If equal in weight retention percentage; I might go with the heavier.

Subjectively, I like Hornady because I've shot a lot of game with it; no failures noted yet.

Trade-offs? Sometimes a heavier bullet will penetrate deeper, assuming equal expansion and energy. Lighter bullet might have lighter recoil. But not necessarily. Many variables.

I might fire both for accuracy and function, then make a choice. To add more confusion: Some units report great success with Remington Golden Sabre.