My kids will be ready to take a part in the 1% while every one else swims in the feces.
It's always nice to see people break out of that "My kids are better than your kids" home-schooling stereotype.
And, after reading the article again, the writer at least proves that he doesn't believe that it's a "moral fact" that it's wrong to be disingenuous. The article begins by suggesting that schools teach children that it's not wrong to kill or to cheat. But then, in his further explanation, he admits that schools, in fact, don't teach those things, but just that schools separate those kinds of "truths" from the - if you drop an apple it will fall - kinds of "truths". The writer may claim to be knowledgeable in philosophy, but he obviously knows very little of logic.
Nice, my feces swimming kids seem to do quite well thank you. My 8th grader just took the SAT for the first time on invitation by Northwestern University. If it works for you, great but don't **** on the rest of us please.Saw problems with the gubmint schools with our son....took him out and home schooled him, he thrived (SAT in the top 2%). Daughter will never go there.
Yeah, we do find the oddest things to complain about. Like forced sex ed and common core BS. My kids will be ready to take a part in the 1% while every one else swims in the feces.
Unfortunately they may find it well past time to water the liberty tree by the time they are ready to partake. They will be ready for that too, it's all part of the education.
Kids don't cheat on tests because they have no 'moral facts' whatever those are. This seems to be an argument for 'belief' vs facts. I discount the idea that w/o religion we have no 'moral' compass. I think we've evolved to do what works best for community, then add these ideas to our belief system. Thou shalt not kill because it really makes people sad, messes up things, and generally disrupts how we get along. We call this 'good' vs, 'bad.'
I'll stick with what they're teaching in public school, and save the subtle philosophical distinctions for higher ed.
"As for fact vs.opinion in 2nd grade: this is a vital move toward the loss of egocentrism and is developmentally sound. It is surprisingly difficult to get THAT across to younger kids."*
And,
" Ethical statement are not facts, they are conclusions. They are principle-based judgments. So, it is a sound conclusion that one should not lie or steal if one bases one's ethics on Kant's categorical imperative or the Golden Rule more generally. To call such a conclusion a "fact" is to conflate facts with reasoned inferences."*
* from the first response to the article.
Nice, my feces swimming kids seem to do quite well thank you. My 8th grader just took the SAT for the first time on invitation by Northwestern University. If it works for you, great but don't **** on the rest of us please.
Umm, kids are invited based on their reading levels ( I don't recall the name of the test all the kids take). He is 13 and reads above a college level (that is as high as it goes). My friends daughter went through the same process, invited by Northwestern University Talent Search. She now has a full scholarship to Culver Academy based on her SAT score from 8th grade. Is that the liberal indoctrination center you speak of? We are looking at universities based on their science programs, the more offers the better.That's great. I'm sure you're proud of your kid. But with all due respect, when liberal indoctrination centers seek out and invite our kids, we might want to take pause and consider whether it's such a good thing anymore. Does Northwestern truly support freedom of speech, for example? Or will they do like OU did when students exercised expressed their 1A rights? Does that mean NWU is inviting your kid because s/he truly brings in diversity of thought or that s/he will "fit in"?
The real critique of moral systems without religion is that they are not grounded, and that they lack fundamental grounds for compelling others to adhere to them. A set of morals may benefit one's group, but not another group's needs and desires or anyone as an individual. So, what is to say that one should respect the morality of another? On what moral grounds can one claim to hold someone responsible to a moral system?
I don't think you are being fair in your assessment. He does not say that the schools do not teach right and wrong, but that they give mixed messages by also teaching that statements about right and wrong do not qualify as facts or can be considered truth in an objective sense.
What would you say if you found out that our public schools were teaching children that it is not true that it’s wrong to kill people for fun or cheat on tests? Would you be surprised?
To teach students that cheating is wrong on one hand, and that such a statement is just an opinion on the other hand seems to me to undermine any authority in holding a student accountable for cheating.
He is arguing that schools are not merely separating types of truth, but implicitly teaching there is only one type of truth; one that can be physically measured or observed. He is arguing that "truth" and "fact" are being conflated. All which seem to be correct. His logic is fine.
There is no reason that a secular moral system cannot be developed and utilized by people.
I do not necessarily disagree, but I can only think of 1 real-world example: Communism. Whether the example is Russian/Soviet or Chinese, I don't think there have been any other secular moral systems on a wide scale, across an even nominally non-homogenous society.
I'm not sure we can really count those as successful. Yet. Or, maybe it is more accurate - at least in China's case - to say it has been successful so far.
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Dear MODS,
Is it OK to talk religion in a gen'l sense (philosophically) and civilly, or are we skirting the rules?? I apologize in advance.
It's always nice to see people break out of that "My kids are better than your kids" home-schooling stereotype.
WeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllI went to a hillbilly public school, the kind where SOMEONE is driving a tractor to prom, and did all right for myself. Odd.