Why is this a pistol and not a SBR?

[71silverbullet]

Why is this not a SBR? It has a stock on it, 12in barrel, and 24in over all length. Just curious what makes it a pistol instead of sbr. This is a Rossi Ranch Hand, a replica of the Winchester Model 92

 

[G_Stines]

Probably because it was built with the intention to be fired from one hand.

 

[Cwood]

It was never a rifle, it was build on a virgin receiver.

 

[NullSyndrome]

My guess is the ATF doesn't consider the stock long enough to be useable? Kind of like the buffer tube on some of the AR pistols. It does seem like a rather "grey area" doesn't it. Still, I'd kinda like to have one, just not high on my list right now.

 

[71silverbullet]

It was never a rifle, it was build on a virgin receiver.

So sbr's are not factory built, but "modified" pistols?
No manufacturer produces sbr's?

 

[Cwood]

So sbr's are not factory built, but "modified" pistols?
No manufacturer produces sbr's?

It does not have a stock on it in the ATF's view. It was build on a virgin receiver and does not have rifle features, ie a stock.

There are plenty of manufactures that build SBR's but to be one it needs to have a shoulder stock on it.

 

[G_Stines]

So sbr's are not factory built, but "modified" pistols?
No manufacturer produces sbr's?

An SBR is built on a rifle receiver, it is intended to be fired from the shoulder, but has a barrel less than sixteen inches.

ETA: yes, I believe there are manufacturers that make SBR's. They are not a modified pistol, a rifle is a rifle and can be made from a pistol, but a pistol CANNOT be made from a rifle. It simply becomes an SBR. Even a pistol with a shoulder stock remains an SBR without it's shoulder stock.

Now, if you take a "virgin" stripped lower receiver, ie never fired a shot, have it transfered to you to as "Other" on the 4473 through an FFL and you could make an AR pistol from that. You could not take your lower off a build and turn it into an AR pistol, because it is classified as a rifle, and thus it would be an SBR and not a pistol.

Because it is built and intended to be shot with one hand, it is a pistol.

Link attached that presents ATF letter photos explaining.

ATF opinion letter on stripped lowers for pistol builds and rubber cane tips on the extension/tube - AR15.COM

 

[Bert]

I'd like to know why these cost so much more than the rifle . less material damm near double the price . It's not fair . Maybe Oblama can look into this for us .

 

[G_Stines]

I'd like to know why these cost so much more than the rifle . less material damm near double the price . It's not fair . Maybe Oblama can look into this for us .

 

[curraheeguns]

An SBR is built on a rifle receiver, it is intended to be fired from the shoulder, but has a barrel less than sixteen inches.

ETA: yes, I believe there are manufacturers that make SBR's. They are not a modified pistol, a rifle is a rifle and can be made from a pistol, but a pistol CANNOT be made from a rifle. It simply becomes an SBR. Even a pistol with a shoulder stock remains an SBR without it's shoulder stock.

Now, if you take a "virgin" stripped lower receiver, ie never fired a shot, have it transfered to you as a pistol or "Other" on the 4473 through an FFL and you could make an AR pistol from that, but you could not take your lower off a build and turn it into an AR pistol, because it is classified as a rifle, and thus it would be an SBR and not a pistol.

Because it is built and intended to be shot with one hand, it is a pistol.

Link attached that presents ATF letter photos explaining.

ATF opinion letter on stripped lowers for pistol builds and rubber cane tips on the extension/tube - AR15.COM

Customers do not have the option to have a stripped receiver transfered as either a pistol or an other.....it is an other or your dealer is not following ATF guidelines.

 

[G_Stines]

Customers do not have the option to have a stripped receiver transfered as either a pistol or an other.....it is an other or your dealer is not following ATF guidelines.

Right. I was saying that in order to have it as a pistol it you would put down the "other" on the 4473....

I guess I did kinda word it weird. I'll go fix it. I knew what I meant, just not what I said.

 

[dice dealer]

I'm sure if you call the ATF and raise enuff hell with them they will let you pay a tax stamp on it

 

[curraheeguns]

Right. I was saying that in order to have it as a pistol it you would put down the "other" on the 4473....

I guess I did kinda word it weird. I'll go fix it. I knew what I meant, just not what I said.

I knew what you were saying, I am saying that the ONLY correct way to transfer a receiver is as an other. A stripped lower can never be transfered as a pistol or a rifle.

 

[71silverbullet]

An SBR is built on a rifle receiver, it is intended to be fired from the shoulder, but has a barrel less than sixteen inches.

ETA: yes, I believe there are manufacturers that make SBR's. They are not a modified pistol, a rifle is a rifle and can be made from a pistol, but a pistol CANNOT be made from a rifle. It simply becomes an SBR. Even a pistol with a shoulder stock remains an SBR without it's shoulder stock.

Now, if you take a "virgin" stripped lower receiver, ie never fired a shot, have it transfered to you to as "Other" on the 4473 through an FFL and you could make an AR pistol from that. You could not take your lower off a build and turn it into an AR pistol, because it is classified as a rifle, and thus it would be an SBR and not a pistol.

Because it is built and intended to be shot with one hand, it is a pistol.

Link attached that presents ATF letter photos explaining.

ATF opinion letter on stripped lowers for pistol builds and rubber cane tips on the extension/tube - AR15.COM

Well that's clear as mud!
To me this looks like a rifle receiver, and has a stock.
Not in any way trying to argue, because this is new to me and I am ignorant to the laws, facts, specifications etc.
I'll just accept that it is what it is and be happy with that.
Seriously though I do somewhat understand, I think. Thanks for helping.

 

[loony1]

Well that's clear as mud!
To me this looks like a rifle receiver, and has a stock.
Not in any way trying to argue, because this is new to me and I am ignorant to the laws, facts, specifications etc.
I'll just accept that it is what it is and be happy with that.

sooooo, you just roll over and are happy with that answer?

 

[71silverbullet]

sooooo, you just roll over and are happy with that answer?

Yea its kinda like algebra, he has the right answer, I just don't completely understand. I just need to read it a few more times.
Besides I'm sure that's how the laws meant to be, not too clear or eady to understand

 

[curraheeguns]

Well that's clear as mud!
To me this looks like a rifle receiver, and has a stock.
Not in any way trying to argue, because this is new to me and I am ignorant to the laws, facts, specifications etc.
I'll just accept that it is what it is and be happy with that.
Seriously though I do somewhat understand, I think. Thanks for helping.

It's a pistol because the arbitrary rulers at NFA tech branch have ruled it so. To try and come up with normal reasoning to some of their decisions is useless.

 

[Clay]

I knew what you were saying, I am saying that the ONLY correct way to transfer a receiver is as an other. A stripped lower can never be transfered as a pistol or a rifle.

they used to be able to on older form 4473s, before the 'other' option was added. It wasn't that long ago IIRC.

 

[samot]

and they still can !
a bare receiver can go either way.
as long as a barrel & or trunnion have never been attached to it...
it can be logged any of the 3 options depending on what the buyer wants to build
been there , got the letter !

they used to be able to on older form 4473s, before the 'other' option was added. It wasn't that long ago IIRC.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Don't ask for a clear answer when the feds are involved.