What's this about badges?

[JettaKnight]

I'm thinking about going to Appleseed in Ossian this year, no date chosen yet. I'm a pretty decent shooter, but want to be better, especially at prone, sitting, etc.

I understand there's a lot of shooting and learning. But I keep hearing about badges and AQT. What's that all about?


Also, I've got a dilemma for firearms. Either:

1. [STRIKE]Bolt action X[/STRIKE] I'm a lefty - too slow and awkward now.
2. Marlin 39A Mountie - very accurate
3. Converted Saiga 5.45 ammo isn't too expensive.
4. Buy a new 10/22 and get used to it this spring.

As for the 10/22, I'd feel compelled to modify it somehow. I'd like to go with a M1 Carbine conversion, but would the sling mount on the left side be an issue since I'm left handed?

 

[rockhopper46038]

The AQT is the Army Qualification Test - it determines your score, with a 210 or better required in order to earn your Rifleman patch. It has been scaled down to work at 25 meters (or yards) and replicates the one used at longer ranges by using smaller targets. You will get the opportunity to shoot it a few times; in my experience for a full weekend Appleseed you may get a minimum of 3 in, but more like 5 or 6. You can use any rifle you want to bring (so long as the range permits it), but the semi-auto .22s dominate, with the Ruger 10/22 being the most popular (although I and others use the Marlin 795, which is less expensive to get ready for a 'Seed, and is just as if not more more accurate right from the box, to boot) probably because of all the modifications you can make to it. To be clear, no 10/22 or 795 should require modification just to shoot Appleseed; both are perfectly capable of the type of accuracy (4 MOA) required to earn your patch, but a GI type sling and some upgraded aperture sights from a place like Tech Sights are highly recommended.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Left handed shooter and a sling mount on the left hand? hmm.. You would be fine. Without actually looking at the rifle and shooter, I would think we would just run the sling from the connection, immediately under the stock to your support side (in your case right) and back to the support side arm.

Really though, bring a rifle you want to shoot a lot and we'll have you shoot it a lot. Everything can be overcome and we can work around any situation. It's awesome fun and we see all kinds of rifles on the line and love every one of them. I do heavily recommend the usgi web sling. They're tremendously effective and inexpensive.

Regarding Badges and the AQT:

AQT= Army Qualification Test. This is the timed target we shoot for score in the appelseed program. The test is out of a possible 250 points and it is based on the rifle qualification test the army uses. We shoot timed stages standing, seated and prone with some magazine changes and transitions.

Badges: I don't know about badges, maybe you are thinking about "patches"? Shooters who score a 210 or above on the AQT are considered an "expert marksman" or "Rifleman" and we give these shooters a patch in recognition of their achievement.
If you have any questions at all, feel free to post them here or in the appleseed forum on this site. Or, pm me and I will be glad to help.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

lol, rockhopper beat me to it. You're quick hopper

 

[Scutter01]

I quite enjoyed my first Appleseed...

 

[JettaKnight]

Badges: I don't know about badges, maybe you are thinking about "patches"? Shooters who score a 210 or above on the AQT are considered an "expert marksman" or "Rifleman" and we give these shooters a patch in recognition of their achievement.

BADGES! We don't need no stinking badges!

OK, so that's why my searches come up empty!

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[JettaKnight]

I quite enjoyed my first Appleseed...

I WANT ONE!!!!

 

[Scutter01]

I WANT ONE!!!!

Just score a 210 or higher on the AQT. I recommend "or higher". You REALLY REALLY don't want to score exactly 210. Especially in the winter time.



I scored 211. I had to argue with the instructor for that last point.

 

[NWIeng]

I hit 210 right on the nose the first time.....

And it was quite enjoyable. I won't say anything more...wouldn't want to ruin things...

And pictures to prove it...

 

[rockhopper46038]

If the right instructor is present when you shoot a Rifleman score, you get...


BACON!


And it was tasty!

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I remember my rifleman bacon as if it were yesterday. Good times.

 

[Bill of Rights]

The OD one was the original Rifleman patch. The sand-colored one followed it; I'm not sure why. The purple one is in honor of one of our instructors who is no longer with us; She died tragically, as I recall, and the other instructors who worked with her made that one in her honor and memory. Finally, the Winterseed patch can only be earned if the weather conditions are appropriately awful in the judgment of the Shoot Boss.

I did say earned, by the way. Some think our course of fire is "easy" because it's "only" at 25m. Come with that attitude and you're setting yourself up for frustration. Scutter made mention that he earned his at his first shoot, and that's testament to not only his skill but moreso to his ability to listen and keep an open mind. He came in with a teachable attitude, listened, learned, and put into practice what he was taught, and as a result, he earned a patch to show that fact. (Most do not shoot a Rifleman score their first time out; I didn't.)

And yes, if a certain instructor who shall remain nameless (but goes by the initials ATM ) is there, there is Rifleman Bacon to be had.

Shooters! Your preparation period begins NOW!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Scutter01]

Scutter made mention that he earned his at his first shoot, and that's testament to not only his skill but moreso to his ability to listen and keep an open mind. He came in with a teachable attitude, listened, learned, and put into practice what he was taught, and as a result, he earned a patch to show that fact. (Most do not shoot a Rifleman score their first time out; I didn't.)

I should point out that I didn't have a lifetime of bad habits to unlearn. That worked to my advantage. I was relatively inexperienced with riflery, which helped.

 

[Que]

I scored a 207 in my last shoot! I must have my precisous!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk4Ntcq5uNg[/ame]

 

[rockhopper46038]

I scored a 207 in my last shoot! I must have my precisous!

Oh, Que! You are so close, my friend! Next one for sure! I'd REALLY like to earn my Winterseed...

 

[Bill of Rights]

I scored a 207 in my last shoot! I must have my precisous!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk4Ntcq5uNg

I scored a 204 my first shoot. I also had a rifle malfunction due to my unfamiliarity with that rifle. My second shoot, I scored where you are now: 207. Frustrating as hell.

Best advice: Dry fire practice. You know the skills. Clear your rifle. Lock the ammo in another room. Clear the rifle again. Now, get down on the floor in your TV room and relax into your sling. Build a good, solid position. Follow the steps of firing a shot. Lather, rinse, repeat. Practice in each of your shooting positions... Give it, oh, 15 minutes a night. (Before supper usually works better than after.)

When you come to your next shoot after doing this regularly, I will be very surprised if you don't earn that patch.

Do note that I do not give this same advice to people who have not been to an Appleseed yet, because while the old saying is that "practice makes perfect", this is not true. Practice makes permanent. Only perfect practice makes perfect. To those who haven't yet come out to a 'seed, my advice is merely, "stretch". Get down on the floor and get your body used to a couple of positions (seated and prone) that it may not have done in a while. Your body will be very grateful to you if you follow this advice.

Hope this helps!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

+1, for all the Civies... Does 6 years of Expert Badges for Rifle and Pistol in the Marine Corps Count, or the armies 300 yards or less shooting count for something? I feel that going to the Sniper Instructor Course in Quantico, VA should also do for something on prowess, but alot of people don't think I know how to shoot either, before I even shot with them. I was having a guy that refused to even read a 6 page fundamentals of marksmanship I typed up, try and give a bunch of prior military guys some shooting advice. It gets very tiresome. I tried teaching that guy, alot of different things, but he was resisitant to the actual development of training something into muscle memory. I tried to teach him about magazine placement and positioning on your gear, such as facing out or in and facing up or down depending on which hand has to grab that magazine. 45 minutes later, he was fed up with the drill. Guess I know how long he would've lasted in the military.

I understand the Ideas that founded our Country, that's why I joined the Marines.
I wish that for one moment, the civies that go to the appleseed could look at what's involved in any military branches' marksmanship training and go from there to form their opinion.

I've even shot the possible score of 25/25 for the prison since they send me for tower training ever since I started. Every Year, since 2003.

Badges, We Don't Need No Stinking Badges.....

 

[Bill of Rights]

Mickey,

With all due respect for prior service and training, I will say that many times, it's the experienced shooters, the ones who know all the fundamentals (and in many cases, from having served in one of the uniformed services) who have the hardest time shooting our course. It's nothing more, IMHO, than trying to set aside what was drilled into you over your years of service, but it tends to kick lots of experienced shooters in the cojones when they find that their methods aren't serving them well. You may be the exception. I never rule out that possibility, despite recognizing how rarely it happens. I look forward to your Appleseed AAR!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[USMC_0311]

+1, for all the Civies... Does 6 years of Expert Badges for Rifle and Pistol in the Marine Corps Count, or the armies 300 yards or less shooting count for something? I feel that going to the Sniper Instructor Course in Quantico, VA should also do for something on prowess, but alot of people don't think I know how to shoot either, before I even shot with them. I was having a guy that refused to even read a 6 page fundamentals of marksmanship I typed up, try and give a bunch of prior military guys some shooting advice. It gets very tiresome. I tried teaching that guy, alot of different things, but he was resisitant to the actual development of training something into muscle memory. I tried to teach him about magazine placement and positioning on your gear, such as facing out or in and facing up or down depending on which hand has to grab that magazine. 45 minutes later, he was fed up with the drill. Guess I know how long he would've lasted in the military.

I understand the Ideas that founded our Country, that's why I joined the Marines.
I wish that for one moment, the civies that go to the appleseed could look at what's involved in any military branches' marksmanship training and go from there to form their opinion.

I've even shot the possible score of 25/25 for the prison since they send me for tower training ever since I started. Every Year, since 2003.

Badges, We Don't Need No Stinking Badges.....

Semper Fi, Ohh Rah....Blah Blah Blah. 6th award rfile and pistol, 2nd MARDIV R&P Team, Interservice 1000 yrd winning team member, M14 instructor scout sniper school, and Blah, Blah, Blah. I too thought it would be easy, just make sure your eyes are as good as they were and you practice your fundamentals. Go shoot an Appleseed. It can be a very humbling expereince even for us bad ass Marines.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

+1, for all the Civies.. I was having a guy that refused to even read a 6 page fundamentals of marksmanship I typed up, try and give a bunch of prior military guys some shooting advice.

Mickey, sorry you had a bad experience. I really like the appleseed program and we have had tons of shooters with extensive military and competition experience comment that they approve of our instruction.

That said, I want to take every opportunity to become a better instructor and shooter. If you happen to have a copy of that 6 page paper on digital, I would appreciate a copy. If I do not have anything to teach you, maybe you have something to teach me. That works even better for me .