What to use for Comm if SHTF?

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I have been discussing some "What if" situations for SHTF with some friends of mine.

In the discussions we have talked about maintaining communications. Some folks want to stay put while others want to head for the hills. I am in the latter category.

What we all agree on is trying to maintain communication so we could try to help with whatever is needed. Good communication amongst friends will promote information sharing and benefit everyone.

That said, we presume normal communications may be down. In a variety of situations normal telephone lines could be lost and cell tower loss would seriously limit cell phones.

I have looked into some of these hunter walkie-talkie phones, but what little I have read leads me to believe that their range is far less than they lead you to believe. I've seen some that say "max range 30 miles". What I understand this to mean is that if Radio A is on the top of a mountain and Radio B is on top of a mountain and there is nothing in between them, then 30 miles is a fair range. In reality it seems that their ranges could be as low as three (3) miles in normal wooded / urban terrain.

What are your thoughts?

I don't want to go to everyone trying to become a HAM operator, that is not reasonable.

Here are the criteria I am looking for, if such a device exists:

#1) It must be portable, either on a person or in a vehicle (individual carry is preferred choice);
#2) It must have a range of at least 20 - 25 miles;
#3) Either a battery or car power source;
#4) Easy to learn to use;
#5) Less than $100 per unit.

If I've overlooked any criteria that you think is reasonable please throw it in.

If there is something that fits most of this but not all let me know what it is.

The reason we are thinking about this is even though everyone is considering some preparation we are not going to "bunker up" as a group unless security dictates safety in numbers.

Thanks,

Doug

 

[LCPer]

Well the less than $100 is out but get your Ham Radio license and you will be ready like me.

 

[Libertarian01]

LCPer,

I agree that a HAM Radio license would give great communication range, but as I said we are all not going to go to the same lengths. We want something that everyone can use right away and have effective county wide communication.

If the price range alone is stopping that then what would be the minimum price to achieve that goal, and what tool would be used?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[50bmgshooter]

Two cups and a string.
(You will just need a really long string to fit your range capability)
and ta-da!!!!.....com problem solved

 

[jason867]

what's wrong with plain old CB radio? It's my understanding that one can (illegally) get great range out of a vehicle setup and certain guitar amplifiers...

 

[Sailor]

Sorry no such device exists.

Fort Wayne has plenty of repeaters and a handheld Ham (2 meter) radio will easily give you county wide coverage. You do not want to have to rely on repeaters though. I suggest a mobile unit like the Yaesu FT-2900. It has 75 watts, run it out of your car, or use as a base. ($150) Antenna height is everything. With a good antenna/coax you could talk up to 20 miles with out using repeaters.

There already exists a set emergency comm plan, and it uses ham radio. If you have one you will have the benefit of hearing information as it happens. Good intel.

A six year old can pass the test, and the cost is $15. Ham radio is the best tool for this job.

Nominate one dude in your group to be the Comm expert. He gets his Tech and General Ham license. The rest of the local group has 2 meter ham rigs. You will then have the ability to talk world wide and relay info to your group.

Pm me if you want details, or more local info.

 

[Eddie]

Sailor's Reply

I think Sailor's reply is best. Everyone does not have to become a radioman. Appoint one person as your commo guy and have them design the system. I would add that you should have back up plans that rely on low tech solutions. Pre-arrange dead drops for your mobile people to check periodically so that messages can be left. Flags, mirrors, smoke and whistles can all be used to convey information. Make up your own codes so that others can't eavesdrop.

 

[Bill of Rights]

If we are talking about natural disaster-type SHTF, HAM, FRS, CB, whatever are reasonable.

If we are talking about the intentional acts of men being the fecal matter that strikes the oscillating ventilation device, it would be fair to note that commo is one of, if not the first thing to deny an enemy. Landline will be down. Cells will be non-functional, and the only airwave traffic that will not be jammed will likely be military.

I would say signal fires, boy scout flashlights and morse code would likely be the best commo you would be able to achieve.



Blessings,
Bill

 

[PappyD]

I'm with Sailor on this one as well. In fact, I would suggest buying or borrowing the most current ham licensing guidebook and just read through it. Decide for yourself if you want to sit for the Technician class licensing test. You can also take practice tests online to insure your success before paying the $ small test fee.

FM commo is line of sight which limits range. Most little handheld "2-meter" radios are 5 watts or less of output or transmit power. They work great when the signal just needs to get to a receiver antenna or "repeater" which could be up on a 200 foot tower nearby. I would say most repeaters are on the grid, so when the power is out the repeaters are down too. (I think some have a battery back-up though) Operating "simplex" or directly from me to you without the repeater link gets a little more complicated. We both have to be on the same frequency. I talk, you listen, and vice-versa. Others on the same frequency can do the same so OPSEC (Operational Security) can get a little loose. There are ways to encode and block others but that's a whole other story.

Amateur radio has a little exercise each year called Field Day, where local clubs and individuals world wide can practice making contacts with other stations. I went to one extreme a few years ago and set up my own little station with a solar-powered, 5 watt ouput, transmitter using only Morse Code! (CW or continuous wave, in ham lingo) Morse is arguably a lost art but still lots of fun. I'm not so sure the scene in "Independence Day" with the ham operators busily tapping out messages would be realistic but who knows?

No doubt ham radio can be and is effective. I would say get the book and casually study it. Buy a basic 2 meter radio. Handheld or mobile base. You can use it to monitor local activity. Be ready to use it if the SHTF stuff really happens!

 

[jeremy]

If we are talking about natural disaster-type SHTF, HAM, FRS, CB, whatever are reasonable.

If we are talking about the intentional acts of men being the fecal matter that strikes the oscillating ventilation device, it would be fair to note that commo is one of, if not the first thing to deny an enemy. Landline will be down. Cells will be non-functional, and the only airwave traffic that will not be jammed will likely be military.

I would say signal fires, boy scout flashlights and morse code would likely be the best commo you would be able to achieve.



Blessings,
Bill

Once again Bill is dead on target. As long as the event is nature based Comms will be something that will work.

If SHTF is from a Government. The only times that Comms will work is when you are been tracked and monitered.

Sorry to bust peoples dreams. But reality sucks.

 

[gmviso]

Once again Bill is dead on target. As long as the event is nature based Comms will be something that will work.

If SHTF is from a Government. The only times that Comms will work is when you are been tracked and monitered.

Sorry to bust peoples dreams. But reality sucks.

Need to make sure 2 way GPS capability is not in anything you have. A portable navigation system is passive only so that would not be trackable. But newer cell phones and cars/trucks with OnStar are definitely bad mojo if you would be trying to evade the govt.

 

[jeremy]

OnStar just one more reason for me to not buy General Motors...

 

[Eddie]

SHTF Thinking

I try to divide my planning into three categories.

First there is the traditional "three day rule". Be prepared to be without government/civilization for three days. This is the DHS recommendation and it applies generally to regional natural disasters.

Next there is the weeks/months scenario. In these situations there is no goverment/civilization for a period of weeks or months. This could be mean a pandemic, war or global natural disaster.

The third is the "long night" scenario, the sort of situation where there is no longer a government or civilization.

Plan along all three lines. Extra batteries for your radio is a fine plan in a three day scenario, but you will need a different plan for longer term disaster planning. Generally high tech solutions work well for short term disasters, but low tech solutions apply better to long term planning.

 

[Scam1789]

First there is the traditional "three day rule". Be prepared to be without government/civilization for three days. This is the DHS recommendation and it applies generally to regional natural disasters.

Next there is the weeks/months scenario. In these situations there is no goverment/civilization for a period of weeks or months. This could be mean a pandemic, war or global natural disaster.

The third is the "long night" scenario, the sort of situation where there is no longer a government or civilization.

All of this thinking is along the lines of "no more government." I think the more likely SHTF scenario is going to be that there is a government, just not one that serves the people at all. The frightening possibility of no more middle class. Everyone talks about SHTF like an end of the world scenario. We are much closer to a simple hostile takeover of our core ideals, and a forced bankruptcy of our own accounts. It is pretty hard to go off the grid when the grid still exists.

 

[jeremy]

It is pretty hard to go off the grid when the grid still exists.

Not really it just means you have to choose to live a little differently, and be a lot more educated...

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Sorry to bust peoples dreams. But reality sucks.

No, triangulation sucks !

 

[Sailor]

My opinion is that it is more feasible, to learn ham within your group than to learn and train up on smoke signals, drop points etc.

The main role is to rally the group when the trigger is pushed. This is going to be well before a total blackout of comms etc.

Once we are together, the role of Emcomm changes to an intel tool.

 

[Farmritch]

No pain no gain
Either you want to communicate or you don't
Getting your Ham Ticket is more than a personal thing you might even enjoy it. Not to mention the other avenues it may open up if something did happen.
Ham radio is not only fun it's a public service.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

If SHTF is from a Government. The only times that Comms will work is when you are been tracked and monitered.

This. If you can work out some sort of code in advance, it would help. Also the CB is the best option without going the HAM route. I refuse to use one in my truck, but for less than $200 you can get a top of the line model and another $75-$100 at a CB shop will put your range well over the mark you're looking for. You can find good CB shops at nearly any truck stop, or just google for what you need and visit radio shack....Sometimes you can pick up a used unit from a shop a bit cheaper....."opening up" a CB is illegal, but the FCC doesn't enforce it anymore like they did in the '70s and early '80s, they have WAY too much on their plates these days and nearly no funding.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

You've made some very good points and broken down my resistance to the Ham Radio approach.

I'll try to investigate it further, along with the CB radio route as well.

After seeing some of the pictures of the newer technology it has certainly come a long way from some of the setups I saw as a kid in the 70's! When you first said "Ham Radio" I thought of a deskfull of oversized equipment with a radio tower going halfway to the moon marking your spot like a giant neon sign. I guess that is not necessarily the case any more.

I also like the idea of a CB radio for vehicles and shorter range communication. I presume their range has increased as well.

Thanks for all the information!

Regards,

Doug