What to do in a situation

[indy77]

This is a hypothetical question: I am in a store, Walmart, Villiage Pantry or whatever, a robbery is going down, a gun is being used by the robber. I am a bystander not directly involved, what is the correct thing to do? I am an elderly man and carry most of the time to protect me and my family. Do I get involved or should I wait until my life or my families life is in danger? I guess I am asking because I don't want to be a good samaritian and spend my remaining years in the pokey.

 

[IndyMonkey]

As long as no one is getting shot/hurt Im ok being a witness.

As for the legal part of it, your good to go if you want to shoot the robber.

You are allowed to protect 3rd party people.

 

[Lars]

Depends on what you believe at the time. If the shop keeper is complying and the MWAG doesn't seem like he's intent on killing anyone. Better to be the worlds greatest witness.

If the MWAG is acting like you're sure he's going to shoot someone. That falls into the "YES" category when you ask yourself "Does this man need to be shot?"

long version.
Does he have intent? (most likely)
Does he have ability? (he's got a gun.)
Does he have opportunity? (he's here, with the gun.)

That's at least two and a half yeses.

Now a suggestion. If you come to the above conclusion. Please don't draw, stand up and yell "Drop it!" Inviting the MWAG to your gun fight is unnecessary, and increases your chances of being shot by many levels of magnitude.

Hopefully the above helps. Also Please consider taking some defensive pistol classes. When you're comfortable there, you might also consider some force on force training. I know my first FOF class really opened my eyes.

 

[indy77]

I guess that is the answer I am looking for, go ahead and shoot. But I understand that there could be a gray area as far as the intent of the robber. Sort of play it by ear. Now that I know I can shoot without repercussions I feel better, cause I would.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

There are a lot of things tactically that you have to consider. Is there a known second shooter? Could there be an unknown accomplices? Are there any hostages you may or may know about? If you shoot one bad guy, you have to be able to shoot them all. If you can't, the safest personal action may be to vacate most ricky-tick to a defensible position and hope for the best outcome.

If it's me. and I have a clean head shot within 50 feet with no chance of collateral damage (accidently shooting someone else), I'd drop him. He would have no warning. I would not shout, talk, whisper or breathe.

That's based upon my own skills (I practice regularly and can consistently put 15 rounds into a 5" group at 25 yards with most of my carry pieces), experience (USMC, former LEO), and absolute distain for anyone who would threaten someone else's life over stuff. I would take the high risk route, but I don't recommend you do unless you are well trained and prepared to accept the consequences of your decision.

In either case your decision will be life altering for everyone involved.

 

[garagegunmaker]

Now that I know I can shoot without repercussions I feel better, cause I would.

I would not say no repercussions. You still might face a lawsuit of some type.

 

[indy77]

There is a lot to consider and that's why I am looking for answers. I carry and have wondered what to do if that situation ever came up. Looks to me like a good witness would be the way to go unless it's my life that's in danger. I would perfer the head shot as we need to thin the herd of people that prey on others, but I have to look at the long term outcome.

 

[IndyMonkey]

When its time to stand up and be a part of this society as a man you will not second guess what you have to do.

If someone was holding you up with a gun you have every right to kill them. Its no different if you are protecting a 3rd party.

 

[Joe Williams]

I would not say no repercussions. You still might face a lawsuit of some type.

Lawsuit? How? Indiana code says that an individual who justifiably uses deadly force is exempt from any legal repercussions. Look up the code for exact wording.

 

[Bubba]

If you are a bystander in a holdup, don't protect the money. It's just paper. If it's only a robbery be the best witness you can be. If you judge that the cashier needs saving and you feel sure enough in your abilities to risk escalating the situation/injury to bystanders/being killed yourself, keep shooting until he isn't a threat.

 

[96firephoenix]

I would not say no repercussions. You still might face a lawsuit of some type.

dead robbers can't sue you.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

What is "only a robbery"? Witness to what, murder?

You're right, it's not about protecting the money. It's about saving a life. If someone points a gun at someone else the pointee needs saving. It takes about 1/10th of a second to pull a trigger. I agree that you must decide whether it is within your ability (mental, emotional, physical, training, etc.) to determine if you can/should intervene, but to say it looks OK, BG hasn't shot anyone yet so I'm not getting involved is to be a little detached from the situation.

I would hope that if someone were pointing a gun at one of my daughters in any siuation that an armed and able civilian would pop the perp and save my kids. I guarantee in the same situation I'll do the same for yours.

If you are a bystander in a holdup, don't protect the money. It's just paper. If it's only a robbery be the best witness you can be. If you judge that the cashier needs saving and you feel sure enough in your abilities to risk escalating the situation/injury to bystanders/being killed yourself, keep shooting until he isn't a threat.

 

[Scutter01]

dead robbers can't sue you.

No, but their family can and will. "He was a good boy! He didn't deserve to die! He never hurt nobody!"

 

[kcw12]

If i was faced with that situation. I would be silent and not let the Robber/could be murder/what u wanna call him know im there. Get where i know i could hit him with a clean shot, and take it. Any man/women comes into a place with a gun and points it at another, that clearly shows me that they're off there rocker and have an intent to kill someone. I may go to jail, i may not. No one can tell when another person is going to shoot someone, but a gun pointed at someone in my book is close enough. This may make me sound just itching to shoot a BG. I am not, I pray to god that I am never in this situation, and can only hope that no one else on this board is.

 

[kingnereli]

Everyone has to make this decision for themselves. For me, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't intervene and the robber ended more intent on hurting someone then I expected. I'll be a good witness and end the threat.

 

[jbombelli]

Legally in the clear to shoot the guy.

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

*********************

 

[indy77]

Ok, thank you all for your responses, but I still feel like I am back at square one. I believe some defensive hand gun training is needed. I have had training in the Navy and National Guard but only with a a long gun. I would feel better knowing what to do by defensive training. I do know from experience that training will kick in no matter what the situation. I believe that's the key element here.
Thanks again for all the comments

 

[chickenman]

I would take some sort of training. Make sure you document some how. Say send it to your self certified mail. And then put it away if you are ever involvled in a shooting then you have or can show you have had some training. Has far a hold up or armed robbery goes. I would shoot to stop the threat. If that mean taking a life to do so I would but I make sure of my shot and I would watch where the bullet goes. Meaning would I hit some else and posible kill or hurt them. I think I would shot for a arm or leg hoping I would knock them down. Wounding them enough to stop the threat and remove the gun and have myself call police or have some else do that. Remember there is always civil court and you be responsable for shooting that would be robber. But If I had do it that that's what I would do. But most important take a class of some sort.
Sorry that's just my two cents.

 

[JDonhardt]

Well, how would your family feel if you were shot and killed because you tried to shoot and kill an armed robber at Village Pantry? Who would protect them once their father was gone?

I wouldnt get involved unless my family or myself was in danger. My duty is to get home safely for them EVERY SINGLE DAY.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Well, how would your family feel if you were shot and killed because you tried to shoot and kill an armed robber at Village Pantry? Who would protect them once their father was gone?

I wouldnt get involved unless my family or myself was in danger. My duty is to get home safely for them EVERY SINGLE DAY.

My family would be sad (I hope) but proud that I stood up to do the right thing, regardless the outcome. Not everyone is a sheep dog, and those that aren't shouldn't try.

I respect your position. Hopefully none of us will ever be put in the position.