Using a Gun for Self Defense Without Firing a Shot

[mlzoiss]

There was a recent article on Guns Save Lives. What bothered me was the comment after it, what do you think?

A resident in Akron, OH says two men in ski masks approached his car in a parking lot. One of the men opened his passenger door and pointed a gun at him.


Fortunately the resident is a concealed carry permit holder in Ohio and drew his own gun.


Upon seeing that they were facing an armed victim, the pair of would be robbers fled.


This is a great example of a gun being used in self defense where no shots were fired.


This is also a prime example of why it’s important to keep your car doors locked at all times when you’re in the vehicle.

Frank
October 2, 2012 8:57 PM EDT


Fail. Improper use of weapon. These people will just move on to the next victim, possibly harming them due to fear aquired in this incident. Never pull your weapon unless you are prepared to use it.
​

 

[Kick]

I tend to agree with the comment. If someone were pointing a firearm at me, I would hope that I was quick enough to retrieve my weapon, aim my weapon, and fire my weapon, before the offender had a chance to fire his.

 

[CTS]

If they took off the second they saw his weapon gunning them down as they fled might have landed him in some hot water. I personally wouldn't have had a problem with it, who knows if they might have suddenly turned around and opened fire, but if someone hostile and armed is running like hell to get away from you, let them. After all, the best way to survive a gun fight, is to not be in one. Also had he hit one, even if no charges were filed, he would almost unquestionably be facing a civil trial he might not be able to afford. If you think you need to discharge to save your life do it without hesitation but if you have the chance not to, avoid it like the plague.

I eagerly await the next several posts calling me a moron.

 

[jblomenberg16]

A firearm is a tool. If it gets you home safely without having to use it, that is a win-win. I know we talk a lot of smack about how quickly we'd draw down and lay the guy out with a nice double tap to the chest here on the internet, but the reality is that the best gun fight is one where you don't have to fire a shot, and still get home safe.

Sure, the bad guy gets away. Sure, he might do something bad to someone else. We're not vigilantees out to tame the lawless. We're civilians who are prepared to defend ourselves in any way necessary within the full extent of the law.

Now, if they didn't turn tail and flee, then it is highly likely the next logical step for this individual would have been to fire it.

 

[cobber]

A firearm is a tool. If it gets you home safely without having to use it, that is a win-win. I know we talk a lot of smack about how quickly we'd draw down and lay the guy out with a nice double tap to the chest here on the internet, but the reality is that the best gun fight is one where you don't have to fire a shot, and still get home safe.

Sure, the bad guy gets away. Sure, he might do something bad to someone else. We're not vigilantees out to tame the lawless. We're civilians who are prepared to defend ourselves in any way necessary within the full extent of the law.

Now, if they didn't turn tail and flee, then it is highly likely the next logical step for this individual would have been to fire it.

He defended himself. It would be nice if he could defend the community as well, but that spills over into the police function. Which the armed citizen is not. He might have shot, but didn't. I don't see he has anything to apologize for.

 

[esrice]

Remember folks, the goal isn't to shoot someone, but to not get shot.

The "if I pull my gun I am shooting" mindset can be dangerous.

 

[Spike_351]

Any time no shots are fired it is a win-win, the thought of shooting them to prevent them from victimizing someone else no matter how righteous I may seem is still criminal, in my own opinion "I Carry a gun to save MY life, not yours" if they do victimize someone else later then it is that persons responsibilty to defend themselves. Of course there are exceptions but I'm sure you understand my point.

 

[bwframe]

You have a half second or so to access the situation. That's not much to read someone's mind and judge their character. I guess it's a judgement that could go either way, but I'll very likely bet on them being serious, thus I will be also.

I never have been in the camp that thinks the sight of my gun will scare off all who will do harm. That thinking works until it doesn't. When it doesn't your kids grow up by themselves.

 

[Kick]

I agree with the posts stating it's the goal not to get shot. I agree that it's better to not have to fire a shot but it's a mind set thing. If you draw your weapon hoping not to have to use it, it could go very bad. However, if you draw your weapon with the intent to use it and the offender flees before you can fire a shot, it's definitely a win-win. I just would hate to have someone draw their weapon, show it to the offender, and wait to see what he is going to do.

 

[Kick]

I read my two previous posts and it looks like they are in need of some clarification.

A. If you are attempting to pull your gun and the offender flees, that is awesome. There is no reason to shoot him in the back or any of that crazy stuff. The attack has ended and you are no longer in any reasonable fear of your life.

B. If you are going to pull your gun, I hope you plan on shooting. If you do not need to shoot, you most likely do not need to pull your gun. There are a ton of "what if" type situations that would dictate the need t pull your gun and then in fractions of seconds the circumstances should change. That game could be played forever.

C. I am well aware that the Military and Police Officers have weapons drawn frequently and do no shoot. However, they are governed by a different set of rules as to when they can legally use force. Those persons (to varying degrees) are also trained to continually assess the "threat" millisecond by millisecond. They still make mistakes.

Bottom Line. If I personally draw my weapon, I am going to be sure that it is in a situation in which I would be LEGALLY and MORALLY justified in using it. If I would be justified in both of the aforementioned ways, I am going to "plan on" shooting. The situation could change in a millisecond and the "plan" can change in a millisecond.

 

[Rocket]

My goal is to never fire a shot at a human being. But I have the capability and mental fortitude to do so. I would not be thinking about legalities though, just moralities. If I have drawn on you I am in DEFCON 1 and finger on the trigger. But if you were to flee it would like the red phone blinking. Downgrade threat level and reassess.
If said bad guy flees he will most likely attempt it again. After reporting the incident with a description to local Authorities my duty to my fellow man ends. Period.

 

[Jack Burton]

This is also a prime example of why it’s important to keep your car doors locked at all times when you’re in the vehicle.

One of the annoyances of my car is that when I unlock the driver's side door, ALL the car doors also unlock. I consider this a great design flaw and dangerous to the safety of the car owner and any others in the car.

 

[bwframe]

A lot can be said for the way one carries themselves. If you don't look like a target, you likely won't be. Head up, eyes open, positive walk. In and out of the vehicle quickly, with the highest % of parking lot time with foot on pedal. Of course, doors locked, buckle/unbuckle when you enter/leave the lot. Oh, and leave your phone in your pocket.

 

[bwframe]

One of the annoyances of my car is that when I unlock the driver's side door, ALL the car doors also unlock. I consider this a great design flaw and dangerous to the safety of the car owner and any others in the car.

Have you tried googleing the problem with your model? I know with mine there are reprogramming tricks to be done.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I have also been in a few circumstances personally where I used a weapon without firing a shot. The would-be attacker and I both left the incident unharmed. The situations I have faced have only allowed me to ask how many other times a gun has prevented me from harm without my even knowing it. I almost always carry concealed, however, there are those rare times when I OC. A lot of people on this forum also OC. Who is to know what terrible event may have taken place had you or I not been armed. Think about it. Every time you use the ATM, despite the chances being slim, you open yourself up to robbery. The man who walked up behind you may have had alternative plans for you, but when he saw your pistol secured to your waistband, he may have quickly changed his mind.

We'll never know, but we'll just keep carrying.

 

[Excalibur]

If the perps were running away, I would let them go if they are out of reach, but if they surrender to me, I can't just let them go. I would need to hold them there until the cops arrive. Since they are running away, I can't shoot them in the back

 

[Burnsy]

I have also been in a few circumstances personally where I used a weapon without firing a shot. The would-be attacker and I both left the incident unharmed. The situations I have faced have only allowed me to ask how many other times a gun has prevented me from harm without my even knowing it. I almost always carry concealed, however, there are those rare times when I OC. A lot of people on this forum also OC. Who is to know what terrible event may have taken place had you or I not been armed. Think about it. Every time you use the ATM, despite the chances being slim, you open yourself up to robbery. The man who walked up behind you may have had alternative plans for you, but when he saw your pistol secured to your waistband, he may have quickly changed his mind.

We'll never know, but we'll just keep carrying.

This is your second reference to OC when using an ATM and not in most other occasions. I will ask you again. Do you really feel you are subject to less risk of being attacked when participating in other life actives such as working/eating/walking/shopping/mowing your lawn etc and therefore CC based on your activity?

I don't care how you carry but your logic does not extrapolate. If you subscribe to the (possible) deterrent effect of OC (I do) it applies to all situations equally. It does not apply more to one environment and less to another.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

One of the annoyances of my car is that when I unlock the driver's side door, ALL the car doors also unlock. I consider this a great design flaw and dangerous to the safety of the car owner and any others in the car.

Ours unlock when we go into park. That sucks A LOT!

 

[TopDog]

Remember folks, the goal isn't to shoot someone, but to not get shot.

The "if I pull my gun I am shooting" mindset can be dangerous.

^^^^^^
This

Sometimes there are some very unsound thoughts floating around INGO. You pull your weapon and shoot a person fleeing. Stand by for some jail time, especially if there is a witness to include security cameras. Shooting a non threat is not the proper use of deadly force.

 

[ditto]

Ok. Apparently I'm in the dark, here. Some kind soul please shed a little light on me.

Based on a thread I was previously just viewing, I have a question. I've seen several posts chastising someone for so much as THINKING about drawing their weapon on an oncoming hostile individual (or several). I maybe do not always agree with an OP's reasons for revealing their weapon (if not OCing), thinking about drawing, or actually drawing - but I thought the whole point of all this was self-defense. Does that mean I'm going to storm around and draw on anybody that looks at me crossways? Or flash my gun when somebody at Wal Mart snags the last good looking avocado before I can get to it? We all for the most part seem like reasonable individuals.

How close are you going to let someone aggressive, intoxicated, what have you, get to you before you start reaching for your gun? If you're Bruce Lee then I commend you...but hey, I'm not Bruce Lee.

What am I, nuts? Backwards? About to get flamed to a crispy goodness? Guess I'll find out.

I ask you all: Where is the line?