US Code 922r

[rambone]

Recently a friend told me he couldn't take his new Saiga 12ga to the range because it didn't have enough American parts on it. I thought he was full of cr@p.

But apparently this is true??

What guns does this apply to? What if you buy an imported rifle and you want to leave it just standard from the factory?

Give me the lowdown on USC 922 (r).

 

[MattCFII]

Basically ten or less parts have to be foreign, you start out with different amounts depending on the gun. For a standard AK it is 16 parts (15 for a non-threaded barrel), IIRC a threaded barrel Saiga 12 gauge is 14 partly because it doesn't have a gas piton rod and partly because there is one part that isn't counted in shotguns. You'll see a lot of Tacticooled SKSes with detachable mags that don't actually have enough parts because their counted parts are actually higher. The BATFE doesn't crack down on 922r that often and when they do it is mostly dealers or suppliers, but it is still a concern that should be addressed.

Note this was an 1989 ban passed by the first Bush and is why you see even pre-1994 AWB AKs with thumbhole stocks and non-threaded barrels, like my MAK-90 was. When you add the proper amount of U.S. parts your Ak now becomes "American" 1989 definition "Assault Weapon" and is legal. Note this deosn't apply to the receiver and in theory if you built an AR with enough foreign parts (like the Chinese M4gery that is imported in Canada) this would still apply. Besides for AKs and SKSes, the other most common guns the have 922r issues are G3/CETMEs and FALs.

If the Saiga shotgun is stock and using factory mag you are ok because it is a "sporting" firearm, but if you converted it to an AK pistol grip or are using a over 5 round magazine it is now non-sporting and has to have the U.S. parts added to it. Not that a U.S. mag actually counts as 3 parts, as does a U.S.

Best place for all things Saiga which also covers 922r issues in sticky threads:
forum.Saiga-12.com

Another good site for calculating parts
Gunwiki: 922(r) Worksheet for AK-47 Builds

 

[indykid]

Reading that stupid rule, it states you cannot make a long gun with more than 10 imported parts. If you replace a stock, you are making it. If you buy it with the stock already replaced, you did not make it and do not have to verify compliance.

If your friend bought the Saiga that way, he didn't "make it" and he is not held responsible for it's compliance.

ATF cannot prove you made it, or bought it that way. You cannot prove you built it or bought it that way. Stalemate. In a court, if you took it that far, ATF would be laughed out so hard it would be heard on the moon. (Yes, in space you can hear a scream!) So far, no one has tried to find out how a judge would rule.

 

[alfahornet]

Reading that stupid rule, it states you cannot make a long gun with more than 10 imported parts. If you replace a stock, you are making it. If you buy it with the stock already replaced, you did not make it and do not have to verify compliance.

If your friend bought the Saiga that way, he didn't "make it" and he is not held responsible for it's compliance.

ATF cannot prove you made it, or bought it that way. You cannot prove you built it or bought it that way. Stalemate. In a court, if you took it that far, ATF would be laughed out so hard it would be heard on the moon. (Yes, in space you can hear a scream!) So far, no one has tried to find out how a judge would rule.

I think you'd still be pulling on the short straw because you'd be out a hell of a lot of cash to pay for an attorney unless you have a strong enough case for the NRA or some other organization to pick up the tap. Personally I make sure my weapons are compliant but I don't know of cases ATF pursuit this section against an individual.

 

[indykid]

I think you'd still be pulling on the short straw because you'd be out a hell of a lot of cash to pay for an attorney unless you have a strong enough case for the NRA or some other organization to pick up the tap. Personally I make sure my weapons are compliant but I don't know of cases ATF pursuit this section against an individual.

Agree 100%

 

[rambone]

One more reason to be paranoid. Just what I need.

So I was thinking of buying a HK91 at some point. If its all original and German, is it non-compliant with 922r?

 

[indykid]

If it was built that way by the factory, and approved for importation with the parts that are in it, it is legal. So-called pre-ban firearms are legal with 100% imported parts. It is only post-ban firearms that are converted to look like pre-bans that need the US parts to be legal. Soooo if the HK91 was imported before the 1990 ban, it is legal in 100% as imported, and you can change out parts to your heart's desire without worry about 10 imported parts or less.

 

[MattCFII]

As I understand it, almost all HK91s were imported before the 1989 Executive Order that formed 922r and the ones that were here were "sporterized" and made into HK911s. They should be fine, but since they are "preban," it is part of the reason they are so expensive.

 

[alfahornet]

As I understand it, almost all HK91s were imported before the 1989 Executive Order that formed 922r and the ones that were here were "sporterized" and made into HK911s. They should be fine, but since they are "preban," it is part of the reason they are so expensive.

I have yet to see an HK911s. I knew of it but then googled it. Not a lot of info on them out there. This threas on HKPRO is somewhat interesting
WTK How many hk 911's exist? - HKPRO Forums and
Is H&K 911 legal in CA? - Page 2 - Calguns.net (has pics)
As far as I knew all HK91,93,94 were preban and hence compliant. Interesting for collectors are the HK41 and 43 which are extremely rare.

 

[sporter]

One more reason to be paranoid. Just what I need.

So I was thinking of buying a HK91 at some point. If its all original and German, is it non-compliant with 922r?

A real HK marked "HK-91" is a true preban and is legal with all the foreign parts present.

It's the post 1989 guns that need to be 922r compliant if they are in assault weapon form.

 

[rambone]

This is the dumbest law of all time.

 

[shooter521]

This is the dumbest law of all time.

Just because it's arbitrary and unenforceable? Man, everybody's a critic.

 

[Srtsi4wd]

ATF cannot prove you made it, or bought it that way. You cannot prove you built it or bought it that way. Stalemate. In a court, if you took it that far, ATF would be laughed out so hard it would be heard on the moon. (Yes, in space you can hear a scream!) So far, no one has tried to find out how a judge would rule.

Ask David Olofson how well the idea that the BATFE would get laughed out of court on technicalities works.

922r is non-negotiable, BATFE will pull no punches in nailing a gun owner to the wall if given the chance. Make sure you have the correct parts.