Tulsa reserve officer shooting of unarmed man

[T.Lex]

Well, this is another ugly situation, with USian class issues sprinkled on top.
?Pay to Play? Cop Shot Unarmed Black Man - The Daily Beast

A rich donor to Tulsa police mistakenly pulled out his gun instead of his Taser and blasted a fleeing suspect.
The volunteer cop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, who killed an unarmed black man was forking over thousands in donations and equipment after becoming an unpaid sheriff’s deputy.

Another link:
Oklahoma black suspect shooting video released - BBC News

I believe the taser/Glock confusion has been brought up before. (Paging the resident lawyer-nanny.)

(Almost posted this in Tactics and Training, but it is more LEO-specific training.)

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This is why I wore my Taser on my left side set up to draw with my left hand. No chance of confusion.

 

[HoughMade]

This is one reason why every deadly weapon/less than deadly combo platform is a non-starter (not that this was the case here).

My knee jerk reaction is to think that tasers and pistols should be completely different in feel and deployment, but it seems like this is an exceedingly rare circumstance (is it?) and is more of a training/experience issue, so if it's really rare, there's no real need for everyone to change based upon one wannabe knucklehead.

 

[T.Lex]

My informal estimate is probably half a dozen reports a year in the media. Not sure if that's statistically significant or not.

Also wondering if INGOterrium would favor murder charges, or something less.

 

[One Shot One Kill]

Hope he gets stuck with negligent homicide, thats what this was at a minimal. I'm not a cop-basher but I feel they often get a little too much lee-way when a killing is unjustified, and while I understand they have to have some priveleges extended to ensure there is no hasty action taken during a honest-to-goodness justified shoot, I don't think they should be getting a paid vacation for crap like this. I didn't see anywhere where it said this particular officer was treated in the same manner, but this article has made me think about how some officers are not charged when they really should be. (IM NOT TALKING ABOUT FERGUSON)

Color isn't the issue here, the penalty for officers is. I respect that officers offer a valuable service to their communities, but they are not any better than any other citizen.

I'm sure this has been said a million times, but IDC

 

[T.Lex]

@HM

Law review overview from 2012:
Weapon Confusion

Interestingly:

An officer who shot a man running away who was only suspected of a misdemeanor failure to pay child support was not entitled to summary judgment. Even though the officer claimed he intended to use his Taser M26 rather than his gun, a jury could view the shooting as objectively unreasonable. The suspect posed no threat of death or serious bodily injury to anyone. As for the officer's alleged confusion between his gun and his Taser, the appeals court noted that the Taser was holstered approximately a foot lower than his gun was, had no thumb safety, unlike his gun, and only weighed half as much as his gun. Because of these facts, the officer should have realized he was holding and shooting his gun. Henry v. Purnell, #08-7433, 652 F.3d 524, 2011 U.S. App. Lexis 14391 (4th Cir. en banc), cert. denied, Purnell v. Henry, #11-458, 132 S. Ct. 781 (2011).See, "Qualified Immunity, Mistaken Shootings, and the Persistent Importance of Perspective: Henry v. Purnell, 652 F.3d 524 (4th Cir. en banc)," by Stephen Wills Murphy, 63 South Carolina Law Review 1057 (2012).

Also, probably the most widely-known incident:
BART Police shooting of Oscar Grant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Officer was convicted of involuntary manslaughter, 2 yr. sentence.

 

[HoughMade]

@HM

Law review overview from 2012:
Weapon Confusion

Interestingly:


Also, probably the most widely-known incident:
BART Police shooting of Oscar Grant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Officer was convicted of involuntary manslaughter, 2 yr. sentence.

Law review.....geez, actual reading.

Kidding, thanks!

 

[T.Lex]

Well, internet site of a law review. Make of that what you will.

Edit: Oops, "law journal" not review. Same diff, right?

 

[HoughMade]

Well, internet site of a law review. Make of that what you will.

Edit: Oops, "law journal" not review. Same diff, right?

Darned if I know, I was on Moot Court.

 

[oldpink]

A very bad thing all around.
I was pleasantly surprised to see that the BBC actually mentioned the Ferguson and SC shootings in a responsible manner, without engaging in the journalistic malpractice of so much of the the U.S. media by only mentioning those shootings at the very end of the report, without using any of these words in mentioning them: connected, related, linked, etc.

 

[GlockRock]

This is why I wore my Taser on my left side set up to draw with my left hand. No chance of confusion.

Exactly right. When I became the departments taser instructor and we upgraded to the X2 platform, I outfitted every officer with support side carry taser holsters. A few guys *****ed and moaned initially, but after a lot of training they're efficient and no longer complain. I can think of two separate instances in the past year where guys have transitioned from their gun to their taser simultaneously. It all boils down to training.

 

[dusty88]

Exactly right. When I became the departments taser instructor and we upgraded to the X2 platform, I outfitted every officer with support side carry taser holsters. A few guys *****ed and moaned initially, but after a lot of training they're efficient and no longer complain. I can think of two separate instances in the past year where guys have transitioned from their gun to their taser simultaneously. It all boils down to training.

I'm interested in viewpoints from you and other officers. However, something like this was my first thought. I've been in a few activities where you prepare to have to react quickly (skydiving, scuba, shooting). It's an absolute necessity that you don't put 2 similar feeling handles, that have 2 different functions, right next to each other.

The liberal media outrage on this is ridiculous, implying the reserve officer was a "donor who played cop". These same liberal rags identified the reserve officer that stopped the Oklahoma beheading as a "highly trained officer" when they wanted to contrast him to armed citizens. That reserve officer was probably also a wealthy guy, and these buttheads have no idea they are talking about the same kind of position.

They are also calling it a "hunt" as if the guy went out to kill someone intentionally.

I do think this reserve officer needs serious consequences. You carry deadly force around, you are responsible for pulling the trigger. I hope the overall result is that more departments take actions like you did, and not actions that hurt their reserve officer program.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This is one reason why every deadly weapon/less than deadly combo platform is a non-starter (not that this was the case here).

My knee jerk reaction is to think that tasers and pistols should be completely different in feel and deployment, but it seems like this is an exceedingly rare circumstance (is it?) and is more of a training/experience issue, so if it's really rare, there's no real need for everyone to change based upon one wannabe knucklehead.

Under stress where you draw from is much more important than the feel of what's in your hand.

 

[GlockRock]

I see where the officer got charged with second degree manslaughter.
Tulsa police shooting: Deputy Robert Bates charged - CNN.com

 

[cobber]

Just wildly speculating, what if it turns out he's a registered Democrat and Obama voter?

 

[HoughMade]

Just wildly speculating, what if it turns out he's a registered Democrat and Obama voter?

Well, there are about a half-dozen in Tulsa, so there's a chance

 

[drillsgt]

This is one reason why every deadly weapon/less than deadly combo platform is a non-starter (not that this was the case here).

My knee jerk reaction is to think that tasers and pistols should be completely different in feel and deployment, but it seems like this is an exceedingly rare circumstance (is it?) and is more of a training/experience issue, so if it's really rare, there's no real need for everyone to change based upon one wannabe knucklehead.

I don't think I would call a Reserve Officer a wannabe, these instances have happened with full-timers as well. Not a function of status but likely training.

 

[HoughMade]

I'm not calling all reserve officers "wannabes". I'm calling this reserve officer a wannabe.

...based upon what I have read. Possibly, I am misinformed, but it's more than one report.

 

[96firephoenix]

anyone else want to comment on the relative age of the officer? What's the mandatory retirement age for most depts?

 

[T.Lex]

I see where the officer got charged with second degree manslaughter.
Tulsa police shooting: Deputy Robert Bates charged - CNN.com

Probably the right answer, legally and practically. May not be "enough" to stop the (IMHO) inevitable protests.