public servant
Grandmaster
Gun shops do it all the time.I don't really see how any store that sells guns can have a sign that says "No Guns Allowed.
Gun shops do it all the time.I don't really see how any store that sells guns can have a sign that says "No Guns Allowed.
Gun shops do it all the time.
On the other hand, a few argue that, like the gay community, "don't rock the boat" kept their issues from being heard and considered. Not until there were gay pride parades, get togethers, public displays, did the movement for acceptance gain any ground.
But concealed carriers are just "closet gay."
(oops, that came out a little too pink didn't it...)
But concealed carriers are just "closet gay."
(oops, that came out a little too pink didn't it...)
It still baffles me that people continue to cry about constitutional rights when referring to private business...
CIVICS FAIL.
The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, has NOTHING at all to do with private business. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Cero. Nilch.
Those sacred documents that we keep referring to? Yeah, they apply to GOVERNMENT. They limit the GOVERNMENT. Not private business.
"Shall Not be Infringed" doesn't apply to whatever rules there may or may not be at WalMart. Or KMart. Or Applebees. Or any other private establishment.
They don't do much good unloaded. Expensive paper weights. It's still no different than Wal-Mart or anywhere else that hangs a sign.No LOADED firearms allowed sign at most gun shops.
They don't do much good unloaded. Expensive paper weights. It's still no different than Wal-Mart or anywhere else that hangs a sign.
This is a common argument that I hear a lot around here. And you're completely right. The Bill of Rights does not "grant" people rights, it simply restricts government from "infringing or abridging" those rights. My point has always been, we can do it too. If the government decided it was legal to murder, would we suddenly feel it was right as well? I feel, as a freedom-loving American, that your rights are protected in my establishment, until you drive away my other customers. You can still exercise your rights, just do it out on the street or somewhere other than my place of business when you start to take money from my business. Just because the government doesn't make us do it, we shouldn't still honor and promote each other's rights as Americans? That's where I disagree with you. How is it right that government can't infringe on my rights, but the 80 year old Wal Mart greeter can? They are both human beings telling another human being "nuh uh, take it back to your car!" This is the problem with this country, we don't teach or promote freedom. We just pretend like the government can't touch us, even though they infringe on our Right to keep and bear arms every day and do nothing but abridge the freedom of speech. So, where is the freedom at? I still believe that private property rights and our freedoms as Americans can co-exist, if we're both smart and responsible about it. I'm not asking to drag a bleeding bag of dead cats through your store, I just want to keep my weapon for self-defense on me, holstered.
The OP carried into a place of business who's corporate policy is to allow carry according to state law. The OP WAS complying with state law and therefore with Walmart's policy. The issues here are that the Walmart employees and the LEOs involved did not know or follow the corporate policy or the laws that they are sworn to uphold. The OP has taken the proper steps to cause remedial training for the parties involved.Less than 15% of us carry weapons. I am one. I have a lot of guns, I like them, and I believe in an almost unfettered right to carry (felons excluded). However, along with my right comes the responsibility to not infringe others rights.
Superior to my right to carry, Walmart has the right to decide who does and doesn't enter their private property (within the confines of descrimination law), and has to weight the business implications of allowing someone with a open carried gun into their stores. I have the absolute right to decide if the parameters they have set (don't OC) are acceptable to me. If they are, I comply and go about my business with them. If not, I go elsewhere.
I CC almost 100% of the time. I respect if someone does not want me to carry on their property. Most of the time I could really care less what someone's 2A stance is when deciding when, if and how to do business.
People that want to OC in places that they know are not tolerant are only going to hurt us all. All Walmart has to do is say no guns on our property. If you are seen with one it is criminal tresspass. They do not have to ask you to leave. You can be arrested on the spot. You will go to jail. You will lose your CCW license. And you won't be able to carry a gun again for a very long time, if ever.
Sometimes you just have to ask yourself if it's worth the fight. This is one that I don't think is worth it. YMMV.
The OP carried into a place of business who's corporate policy is to allow carry according to state law. The OP WAS complying with state law and therefore with Walmart's policy. The issues here are that the Walmart employees and the LEOs involved did not know or follow the corporate policy or the laws that they are sworn to uphold. The OP has taken the proper steps to cause remedial training for the parties involved.
You are not guilty of trespass merely by virtue of violating a business's policy. They must first ask you to leave. If they do, and you do not comply then you are trespassing.
Understood.Agree.
Was correcting the error in your post, however, not making a statement on the state of loaded or unloaded firearms.
Carry on.
did not know or follow the corporate policy or the laws that they are sworn to uphold.
Understood.
I think it would make more sense to begin to target those businesses that make a living "supporting" your 2A rights that currently restrict those same rights. (We'll sell it to you because you have the right to own it...just don't load it and bring it back inside.)
I find it rather ironic....a gun shop that will sell you firearms and ammo....won't allow you to bring the loaded weapon into their shop.
If you truly believe Wal-Mart...by asking you to cover up or leave with your gun is stepping on your toes...you should be outraged by gun shops not allowing you in.