Tonight at walmart

[ihateiraq]

You might want to be an MP, or some sort of military before you open your mouth there High Speed...Badges are issued, with serial numbers, and carry Federal authority.

i reclassed to mp in sep 04. a grand total of 0 of us were issued badges. on ad i never saw mps displaying badges. a brassard was as far as it went. as far as i know, CID are the only ones who use badges officially. regardless of the badge issue, as a military policeman you have 0 authority in the civilian world. thanks for the education though.

 

[youngda9]

So, according to you, a law abiding citizen that holds a LTCH should just bow down and roll over if your rights are being trampled on right?

Er, no. Try reading(a little slower this time) what I wrote. I'm saying that the OP did the right thing. After getting chucked from the store he went the route of contacting the offenders and is getting results from the police and WM. I'm saying that returning with a bunch of armed budies to get chucked from the store again would have been counter-productive at that point, even though he is in the right. He did the right thing and I commend him for it. Amazing that people don't understand that.

People will not learn or be corrected unless someone, somebody or a group makes the effort to inform or correct an individual or organization of the rights that are bestowed to them according to law.

Agreed, he has done that. Once all sides are sorted out then you can go on informing people with your OC all over the place.

 

[IMPD31323]

Speaking as a former military police officer now indianapolis metro police dept officer, a military police officer has 0 authority off base unless he/she has specific oders stating ser# of weapon to be carried and a commanders seal of authority. They will also have an issued military concealed carry liscense (had 1 for 3 years), it will have firearm ser# and picture of holder. MP badge means nothing off base.

 

[38special]

I need to take over one bedroom in your home. I have a need for a secure place to store my papers until they can be searched via a warrant. My right to have secure papers and your right as a property can co-exist, so this shouldn't be an issue. I will have all of it moved out within a couple of years anyway.

Since when does carrying a weapon equate with taking over a bedroom?

This doesn't make any sense. I never said anything about storing anything anywhere or taking over a property. Just that as a 2A-practicing armed American, I am not taking away Walmart's private property rights by carrying my gun while shopping there.

Hardly the same as taking over walmart.

So you are OK with various people using your computer so long as they are exercising their first amendment rights?

If I was a business, inviting customers to use computers, yes. Walmart is a business inviting citizens, often people carrying guns, to come into their establishment.

Again, stop making ridiculous arguments. These are called "red herrings" and have no place in a formal debate.

What about using your money to print up political signs, OK as well?

This doesn't even make sense. I'm not sure how to respond.

I can support the argument that folks can't help what they are born with: Skin color, sex organ, etc., so protecting their rights should be discussed. In a true individual freedom nation, a business owner should have the right to ban anyone for anything they please

These two sentences are not compatible. What you're saying in one sentence is that color etc should be protected from discrimination and in the very next sentence stating that the business owner should be able to ban them based on color.

I was also born into a country with 2A rights, protected by the Constitution of the United States so you're opinion of whether this should be protected is null. It's already decided by the Constitution.

They likely never will be, as if you don't like a private property owner's decision to not allow guns, go elsewhere. You will never get true, 100% individual freedom, unless you support the selling of RPGs, grenades, and nuclear arms to private individuals who can afford them. In this country, some folks will always lose some of their rights.

I'm not arguing that some people won't lose their rights. I'm arguing that they shouldn't The 2nd amendment is a right afforded by the constitution. When it comes with businesses that don't support my rights, I *do* go elsewhere. I've never made any mention of not going elsewhere in this thread.

But I'm arguing that my right to bear arms does not inherantly take away their right to private property. These rights can coexist (unlike your scenario of taking over private property).

 

[femurphy77]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 360
I have blue balls.

That is TMI.
There is a cure for that I'm told.
The point is you have some.
__________________

"Contested primaries aren't civil war; they're democracy at work and that's beautiful." -Sarah Palin

​

"BloodEclipse is right" - MACHINEGUN ​

Listen to B.E. 360. . . . .with an avatar and sig line like that. . . . . . .​

 

[sptland]

Does anyone have a direct link to the law regarding open carry in Indiana? I've had this discussion w/many people who are asking the same thing. I would like to be able to print the law and have it ready to distribute.

 

[ocsdor]

Does anyone have a direct link to the law regarding open carry in Indiana? I've had this discussion w/many people who are asking the same thing. I would like to be able to print the law and have it ready to distribute.

This has been covered many times here, but since you're new, I'll give some help. Indiana law does not make any reference to open carry/concealed carry. All that matters is that you have a License To Carry a handgun in public.

http://www.in.gov/isp/files/firearms_FAQ_02_08.pdf

 

[finity]

You act as if going back to be escorted out is productive.

It could be. I have no way of knowing one way or the other. It's not a foregone conclusion that it won't as you seem to be assuming. It's worked before on other issues.

Have fun with the swat team, haha.

Now they're going to call in SWAT?!? For a small group of people doing nothing illegal? What's next the National Guard?

10%...where do you get your stats from.

Well, you could go to the IndyStar database for gun permits & add them all up to get an exact number but just browsing through each page the numbers tend to run around the 10% mark. In 2005 the number was 7% (1 in 15). After the recent big boom in applications 10% is probably accurate or maybe a little conservative.

Diplomacy should be your first, and the most CIVIL, course of action. If it doesn't work, then feel free to go there with all of your buddies a bunch of times to get the cops called on you over and over and over again until someone wises up to the issues.

Ah, so now you concede that an OC event COULD have a positive effect on peoples perceptions of gun-owners BUT only after a diplomatic solution is attempted first.

The first thing I need you to do is define "first". In many places there have been efforts to try to educate people that hasn't seemed to work (but then again if you OC to educate people you're being an irresponsible cowboy to some - darned if you do & darned if you don't). Whether through willful ignorance or willfully ignoring the laws/rules I can see how some could be impatient about diplomacy.

 

[Jack Ryan]

ok i was at walmart tonight shoppin for a cell phone. when i noticed 2 females following me thur the store the disappear. Ten mins later a lady officer show up an. Asked do you have a license to carry that? i said yep. she asked were is it? i said in my wallet so she grabbed my wallet an went thur it an found my card an id. the she tell me if your goin to carry that you need to cover it up..an grabbed my sweater an pulled it over my pistol. an said i had to cover it or leave per management. i fellowed her order an left with out conflicked. On my way out i said you do know i have the right to carry anyway i want right? Both officers said in the state of Indiana you must carry so no one can see it... i think in the morning i will print off the laws an take them to the police station in the morning an talk to the chief of police... Do you guys think i was in the wrong?

Was Pee Wee Herman wrong when he shouted back, "I meant to do that!"


"On my way out i said you do know i have the right to carry anyway i want right?" ROTFL, that's funny right there I don't care who you are. Did you way until they slapped their hands together, brushed off their pants and the doors were closed tight before you mumbled that under your breath?

LOL

I think that's a GREAT idea. You should also print up this thread exactly the way it is printed here and take all your written evidence and support with you to the police chief's office and DEMAND satisfaction immediately! Call the media and have an OC walk around the block between where you park and the chief's office.

 

[public servant]

If you want to male a real stand...OC to Wal-Mart and when they ask you to leave sit down in the middle of the floor and tell them to kiss your :moon: you're not going anywhere.

 

[finity]

If you want to male a real stand...OC to Wal-Mart and when they ask you to leave sit down in the middle of the floor and tell them to kiss your :moon: you're not going anywhere.

Nah, that would be illegal!

 

[Indy317]

I was also born into a country with 2A rights, protected by the Constitution of the United States so you're opinion of whether this should be protected is null. It's already decided by the Constitution.

So when the Supreme Court says that the 2A only applies to the military, you will turn in your guns, right? I mean if you only rely on your human rights going by what a piece of paper says, that means you support that piece of paper when it gives the US Supreme Court the right to determine if laws are constitutional. Just because I extend the right to you to come and buy products at my store doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want so long as it is listed in the Constitution. You can't pass out bibles, even if you are standing there just holding them out, making an offer. You can't pass out political pamphlets. And no, you can't carry your gun if I say so. I know some folks hate the idea that a property owner actually have a say in how they govern their property. Unfortunately it appears that private property rights continue to be destroyed by both the left and the right. As such, I will never own a business, putting my own money into providing a service, jobs, etc. just so the government can come in and tell me how to run it.

But I'm arguing that my right to bear arms does not inherantly take away their right to private property. These rights can coexist (unlike your scenario of taking over private property).

If I can prove that I would only use your computer when you are not using it, then my right to free speech can co-exist with your right to use your property when you see fit, does that mean I get to use your computer in your business? You invited me into your business, so it doesn't matter what your business is. I get to bring my gun, pass out political stuff, pray, use your computer for free speech, etc., just so long as I can prove my actions can co-exist with your business and doesn't interfere with your business in any way.

 

[lashicoN]

So when the Supreme Court says that the 2A only applies to the military, you will turn in your guns, right? I mean if you only rely on your human rights going by what a piece of paper says, that means you support that piece of paper when it gives the US Supreme Court the right to determine if laws are constitutional. Just because I extend the right to you to come and buy products at my store doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want so long as it is listed in the Constitution. You can't pass out bibles, even if you are standing there just holding them out, making an offer. You can't pass out political pamphlets. And no, you can't carry your gun if I say so. I know some folks hate the idea that a property owner actually have a say in how they govern their property. Unfortunately it appears that private property rights continue to be destroyed by both the left and the right. As such, I will never own a business, putting my own money into providing a service, jobs, etc. just so the government can come in and tell me how to run it.



If I can prove that I would only use your computer when you are not using it, then my right to free speech can co-exist with your right to use your property when you see fit, does that mean I get to use your computer in your business? You invited me into your business, so it doesn't matter what your business is. I get to bring my gun, pass out political stuff, pray, use your computer for free speech, etc., just so long as I can prove my actions can co-exist with your business and doesn't interfere with your business in any way.

Indy317, I rarely directly disagree with everything someone puts in a post, but your argument is so flawed that I have to reply to it.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

Where in there do you see that it says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, unless the Supreme Court says so"?

The amendment was made so our Government COULD NOT infringe on that right, so the SC making it law that a right of "the people" only applies to Military/LEO is null and void. Sorry, but it can't legally happen without infringing on our right to keep and bear arms, thus making it, once again, illegal.

Stores aren't podiums, you shouldn't use them to further your agenda. You should use them to make money, any way you can, as much as you can. If 10% of your customers carry guns and 90% don't, but of that 90% only 2% believe people shouldn't carry guns, the ten outweighs the two and you should side with the ten. These aren't statistics, I'm just taking a stab in the dark of how many customers in Wal Mart would actually call the cops when they see a plain clothes citizen carrying a handgun. It doesn't make any sense to not allow citizens to carry handguns into your store unless you have received a high volume of complaints by other customers who have left without purchasing items because they didn't feel safe. I'm sure that doesn't happen very often. I think usually what happens is that (for some reason) the big shot Wal Mart manager's manhood and extreme power feel threatened when someone who looks like him/her walks into his/her store with a handgun.

Your computer analogy makes no sense on any level possible. If a business is selling computers (Wal Mart, BestBuy, Circuit City) they actually do put computers out for you to try out. 38 special's house isn't selling computers. The only thing your analogies have in common is that both his house and Wal Mart is private property. Apparently what you are failing to see is that Wal Mart INVITES customers to come in to feel up their products, carry them around, have this infants drool on them, have people's dorito fingers touch them up, and hopefully purchase the dorito dust, slobber covered item. When you invite customers to come in, businesses understand that people do bring things in with them, such as bad breath, annoying cell phone ringtones, drooling kids, whiny kids, BO, way too tight clothing on way too big people, and yes, firearms by people with firearm carrying licenses.

I've said it before and I will say it again, I don't care if you come into my business and exercise the dickens out of your First Amendment Rights, go ahead, hand out political pamphlets, hand out bibles or Korans, preach about God, but when I lose a sale because of you, you lose your ability to use my store as your place of assembly. Call me crazy, but I love our rights, and not just to be bestowed upon myself. I also appreciate property rights, the two can co-exist, so know that you can be free at my store, exercise your rights, just buy something once in a while and don't drive away my other customers while you act crazy.

 

[Dm112375]

I'd have to say that there is too many people out there that do not know the laws that just so happen to carry a badge. I would have personally left to keep from causing an uncomfortable situation with nervous police officer. I would invite the officer to visit with me to discuss the law though. On the other hand, most big chain stores have a posted sign regarding guns being carried by non police use. On private property, the property owner always has a right to not let loaded firearms on the property, including walmart.

 

[38special]

So when the Supreme Court says that the 2A only applies to the military, you will turn in your guns, right?

When did I say this?

The Constitution does not give the Supreme Court the authority to overturn my rights.

You can't pass out bibles, even if you are standing there just holding them out, making an offer. You can't pass out political pamphlets.

Could you show me the amendment where it says passing out Bibles and political pamphlets are constitutionally protected rights?

I must have missed it.

I know some folks hate the idea that a property owner actually have a say in how they govern their property. Unfortunately it appears that private property rights continue to be destroyed by both the left and the right. As such, I will never own a business, putting my own money into providing a service, jobs, etc. just so the government can come in and tell me how to run it.

I'm all for private property owners protecting their property. You don't have to allow me onto your property if you don't want me to be there. Walmart invites the public to their property, you don't. These are two very different situations.

If I can prove that I would only use your computer when you are not using it, then my right to free speech can co-exist with your right to use your property when you see fit, does that mean I get to use your computer in your business? You invited me into your business, so it doesn't matter what your business is. I get to bring my gun, pass out political stuff, pray, use your computer for free speech, etc., just so long as I can prove my actions can co-exist with your business and doesn't interfere with your business in any way.

Did you sit back and read anything that you just wrote?

I'm not inviting you to my house, and if I do, you're more than welcome to use my computer.

 

[tuckdog]

I am surprised a Wally World did not have the "no firearms" sticker on the doors.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I am surprised a Wally World did not have the "no firearms" sticker on the doors.

Even if it did it holds no legal weight.

 

[ihateiraq]

would people really be shocked if walmart didnt want guns in their stores? they dont even sell unedited cds.

 

[lashicoN]

would people really be shocked if walmart didnt want guns in their stores? they dont even sell unedited cds.

I don't really see how any store that sells guns can have a sign that says "No Guns Allowed. Violaters will be asked to leave!" So as soon as you purchase a rifle/shotgun, you get the cops called on you because you have a gun? The edited CDs always get me. They usually keep them near the Grand Theft Auto game and Public Enemies DVD. God forbid someone hear some bad words in between running cops over with your car or idolizing bank robbers.

 

[ArmyMP]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihateiraq
no. the army doesnt even issue MP badges to MPs. you buy them at kiosks at the px in ft leonard wood..

+1 to ihateiraq

You might want to be an MP, or some sort of military before you open your mouth there High Speed...Badges are issued, with serial numbers, and carry Federal authority.

I smell a poser..... i was an MP... anyone with an "MP" badge was a joke..... Anyone that has gone through lost in the woods knows that the 1st week of basic they harp on you to not go try and buy a badge and be captain america