To Mask or Not to Mask?

[jamil]

Just as an FYI when Fauci is interviewed in a forum where he has an opportunity to give complete answers (ie not congressional testimonies which are often a showplace for the senator or congressman to make a speech and get a preplanned answer) he talks about the mask shortage but also the increasing information later that a significant % of infection was coming from people who were asymptomatic.
The asymptomatic spread is what changed my mind earlier this year.

But you can think Fauci is a total boob or a liar, and there is still evidence to use masks especially to protect others. (the latter is your point, I think, that you don't need to like Fauci to appreciate the potential of masks)

Kinda. My point was really two sub parts. One, Fouci admitted to lying "for the greater good", notwithstanding whatever new evidence came after that. That means that if it came down to the greater good again, he'd lie again. Two, contained in that admission was a tacist acknowledgement that he believed that masks were helpful then, and it appears that he still believes it.

To Tombs' point that doesn't address cloth masks at all. But where I differ from his position is that I think the jury is still out on the extent to which cloth masks can help stop the spread at the source. I think it's somewhere between 0 and 100, and probably on the short end of the zero half. To get that, I think we need to know it in terms of R0. In the mean time, like I said, I'm not wearing masks where I can socially distance myself from people. If I have to be somewhere that it's not possible, I'll wear the mask.

 

[churchmouse]

All the data in the world does not condone shaming anyone. Ever. Let them live their life. You live yours. Move on. Get over it. You can’t have control over me.

Bingo. This sums it up nicely.

Give me/us the absolute untwisted to the narrative truth and I will make an adult decision based on those truths if they are in fact.....Truths.
There has been so many un-truths/agendas born/narrative generated/lies told and on top of that a card only thing (no cash) coming to a life style near you.

Coin and cash shortages my ass. All over a bug that has been propped up to push us away from the polls and set up the orange man to fail. A dress rehearsal for more things to come.

Wear them if you will.

 

[Ballstater98]

Popped up on my phone a minute ago:

 

[JettaKnight]

He didn’t take in new information. They were just lying to get people to stop buying up all the masks. Fouci admitted that in a Senate hearing just the other day.

So.... why are people clinging to a known lie?

 

[JettaKnight]

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/?...YfCzYcamWqEEETaMWI7wE04xfQ_J-LwXokmRxENKTrgTg

From the same people that claimed Obama hypnotized people.

 

[drillsgt]

AAPS is a political organization that promotes similar quackery like anti vax propaganda.

I posted some links earlier in this thread showing potential benefits of different types of masks. I'll see if I can find those again

No organization is perfect lol, similar to the American Academy of Pediatrics or the AMA's quackery like anti-gun propaganda.

 

[JCSR]

More Than 40% of U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Linked to Nursing Homes

How can this happen when everyone at these facilities wear masks and no visitation?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html

 

[drillsgt]

From the same people that claimed Obama hypnotized people.

Are we just upset with the messenger or the message?

 

[dusty88]

More Than 40% of U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Linked to Nursing Homes

How can this happen when everyone at these facilities wear masks and no visitation?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html

No one says masks are perfect.
Nursing homes are not usually highly staffed and depend a lot on lower-paid nurses aides that sometimes even work at multiple facilities. They may or may not be folllowing protocol. They also have lives and are possibly picking up the virus in the community
Testing is slow. You can test employees weekly but sometimes they've exposed people for days before their test results come back.

 

[JCSR]

No one says masks are perfect.
Nursing homes are not usually highly staffed and depend a lot on lower-paid nurses aides that sometimes even work at multiple facilities. They may or may not be folllowing protocol. They also have lives and are possibly picking up the virus in the community
Testing is slow. You can test employees weekly but sometimes they've exposed people for days before their test results come back.

So masks don't work in a controlled setting but are going to keep us safe out in the world. Masks only give false security. If you are scared, sick or have pre-existing conditions. STAY HOME.

 

[JettaKnight]

Are we just upset with the messenger or the message?

How many thousands of posts on INGO are wasted on blasting CNN?


How many post include with, "Well, I can't trust that source, so..."




I'm merely saying, take that message with many grains of salt.

 

[JettaKnight]

So masks don't work in a controlled setting but are going to keep us safe out in the world. Masks only give false security. If you are scared, sick or have pre-existing conditions. STAY HOME.

I think you're confusing "don't work" with "don't work perfectly".


It's certainly conceivable that masks are effective, yet not magical.

 

[JCSR]

I think you're confusing "don't work" with "don't work perfectly".


It's certainly conceivable that masks are effective, yet not magical.

For every "study" you find supporting masks I can find one disproving it. It's all guess work and politicians are forcing their "guess" on us. Let it be the people's choice. Kentucky's governor is getting the smack-down from the courts today and I'm hoping many will follow.

 

[JettaKnight]

For every "study" you find supporting masks I can find one disproving it. It's all guess work and politicians are forcing their "guess" on us. Let it be the people's choice. Kentucky's governor is getting the smack-down from the courts today and I'm hoping many will follow.

I find no fault it that at all.


except... why are we looking for studies that support our preconceived notions?
This whole mask issue is nothing but entrenchment and confirmation bias in a rather obvious and extreme way.


People like to claim their open-minded and fact based, but the reality is quite the opposite.

 

[dusty88]

So masks don't work in a controlled setting but are going to keep us safe out in the world. Masks only give false security. If you are scared, sick or have pre-existing conditions. STAY HOME.

No one who says the vulnerable should just "stay home" can explain to me how you keep the virus out of healthcare settings in the face of high community transmission.
Higher risk people (and I'm including some basics here like obesity, diabetes, and localized cancers) need to visit healthcare more often.
Maybe when we have point-of-care testing at the rate of millions per day, then we can keep healthcare relatively safe even while the virus runs rampant.

 

[jamil]

No organization is perfect lol, similar to the American Academy of Pediatrics or the AMA's quackery like anti-gun propaganda.

I generally think it's unwise to trust without question what people say who have a reason to lie. Any organization that has an ideological component, or ideologues at the head of it, has a reason to lie. Doesn't mean they are lying, but it does mean you have to critically look at what they're saying.

 

[jamil]

More Than 40% of U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Linked to Nursing Homes

How can this happen when everyone at these facilities wear masks and no visitation?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html

I think a lot of that happened with the initial surge, especially in states that prevented nursing homes from rejecting residents who tested positive with covid. The majority of people who have died from covid, died before the mask hysteria.

 

[Tombs]

Of course there was a shortage of cloth masks. They weren't in common use before that. And then they were suddenly in demand. The idea of cloth masks is that it's probably better than nothing. Of course it's almost "nothing" in terms of protecting you from getting it. But there are some tests that show hardly much gets past even a cloth mask when you breathe, talk, cough, or sneeze, because they do block droplets pretty well. Of course the complaints from the right that they don't work if people don't wear them properly are spot on.

I don't have a good reason to think the people who say the masks are helpful pretty much believe they are. There's no ideological reason or evidential reason for me to believe it. All I can do is take in all the information from whatever sources I can pull together and try to piece together what looks like reality to me. And what it looks like to me, masks are probably not very effective at protecting us, especially the cloth masks. But I think even the cloth masks can help keep people who have covid and don't know it, from infecting others. To me, that's not strong enough evidence to justify mandating masks. And I'm not terribly fond of wearing one myself, and I don't when I can distance myself from other people.

They claim any facial covering is suitable for the label of masks. Are you telling me handkerchiefs, bandannas, and scarfs weren't available?

They were, but anyone with 2 braincells to rub together knows the risk reduction they present is so low as to be nearly meaningless. So to make the public feel good, they effectively start recommending them, knowing that rated respirators are in short supply.

Like I said, I'm not critical of people who want to wear something that's actually rated to some reasonable standard. The virtue cloth thing just drives me insane.

I have no doubt a rated respirator presents a risk reduction greater than random chance. But cloth? Yeah, I don't really buy that at all. I think it's most wise to look at what people wear and use at a professional level around people who actually have the virus. That's where my opinion has shifted based on evidence available to me.

It's kind of like if you saw medical experts running around and telling people that stuffing some cotton in your ears is suitable hearing protection for shooting, as opposed to OSHA approved hearing protection with a rating. At a certain point you should be calling out this stuff because it has long term consequences for people's safety. Pretty sure most of us in that situation would be telling the individual that if they value their hearing they should use proper protection, and not merely just respecting their belief that it is proper protection.

And now that it's politicized it's hard to find unbiased information, which is why I'd point people to early information before it became a political circus.

 

[paintman]

Henry county is voting on the 23rd about mandatory masks.

 

[bwframe]

[h=2]Alert Monroe County Public Health Order Effective 5:00 PM July 17th, 2020[/h]Local public health authorities are given statutory authority to direct and instruct their individual counties. Beginning 5:00 PM July 17th, 2020, all individuals in Monroe County must wear a face shield, face covering, or mask over their nose and mouth when in an indoor place other than their home or immediate family member's home. A face shield, face covering, or mask must be worn when outdoors in a situation when adequate physical distancing of 6 feet or more is not possible. There are exceptions to this mandate. Please read the Health Order in it's entirety on Monroe County Government's website https://www.co.monroe.in.us/ in the Breaking News section. Stay safe and stay well.