This is what happens with gun registration

[jevin]

I was reading about David Berkowitz today when I came across this gem:

Police questioned the owners of 56 .44 Bulldog revolvers legally registered in New York City, and forensically tested each weapon, ruling them out as the murder weapons.

Imagine that, the criminal didn't have a legally registered gun! I'm just glad for those poor saps that did legally register their firearms that the forensics team didn't make a mistake. I can imagine the officers asking the Bulldog owners "If you didn't do it then you won't mind us taking your gun for testing, right?"

 

[Excalibur]

Now there are crimes where someone used a gun that were bought through legal means and on paper, it is THEIR gun, but odds are that criminals have been known to use stolen and illegally bought guns. And what if some owners of the same gun refused to have their guns tested. Also, the fact that specific barrels like octagonal barrels makes the bullets hard to trace to the gun. Also The Bulldog revolver is not the only gun that shoots .44. How did they trace the gun to a Bulldog? Does only the Bulldog have a particular barrel that only it can have? If so, wouldn't this be present in EVERY Bulldog revolver.

Also reading the case, just because he uses a "shooting stance that is the same as taught by the NYPD training doesn't mean he potentially could be a cop. That logic doesn't make sense.

 

[Kw1P]

imagine if it was a glock "Police questioned the owners of 254,716 glocks legally registered in New York City, and forensically tested each weapon, ruling them out as the murder weapons.

 

[blamecharles]

imagine if it was a glock "Police questioned the owners of 254,716 glocks legally registered in New York City, and forensically tested each weapon, ruling them out as the murder weapons.

They would have known by the marks from the kaboom.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

This too.

 

[Ragenarok007]

Now there are crimes where someone used a gun that were bought through legal means and on paper, it is THEIR gun, but odds are that criminals have been known to use stolen and illegally bought guns. And what if some owners of the same gun refused to have their guns tested. Also, the fact that specific barrels like octagonal barrels makes the bullets hard to trace to the gun. Also The Bulldog revolver is not the only gun that shoots .44. How did they trace the gun to a Bulldog? Does only the Bulldog have a particular barrel that only it can have? If so, wouldn't this be present in EVERY Bulldog revolver.

Also reading the case, just because he uses a "shooting stance that is the same as taught by the NYPD training doesn't mean he potentially could be a cop. That logic doesn't make sense.

Most guns have unique measurements on the barrel that leaves specific markings on the bullet. There are standard depths and widths and spacing on the rifling that varies from each brand and manufacturing method and model even. Each individual gun displays slight variations which are unique to that gun only, slight imperfections that may only be microscopic. This is the science of ballistic forensics.

But yeah, registration is stupid for the resons already stated.

 

[Iroquois]

Barrel wear and damage alter the rifling marks on a bullet. A rat-tailed file or very dirty
ammo could render ballistic testing useless. It also doesn't add value to the gun.
Normal wear renders factory 'test bullets' useless in a short time.

 

[Jarhead77]

Ok. I admit I'm a noob. But I gotta ask. ...the sutuation....You legally purchased a handgun from a dealer and did an FFL transfer. Is there anyone out there that really thinks you didn't just "register" your ownership of that weapon? I know we can do ftf in Indiana with just a visual of a valid DL and LTCH ( if we are being responsible) but it is in a federal database with the original owners name associated with it. Am I missing something or are we just kidding ourselves that we are not "registered" gun owners?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Another fun problem is one that in my case washed up on the beach in Florida. I was on vacation and at the time hunting sea shells and found an expired handgun license/permit/whatever NY calls it which had washed up. It was a hard card like our driver's license and featured his name, address, and the make, model, and serial number of every handgun he owned--and the state had so little diligence in its handling procedures that the expired license he turned in at renewal ended up in my hands in Florida. Once again, we see proof that only the state is responsible enough for such important tasks as tracking information regarding arms.

 

[CarmelHP]

Ok. I admit I'm a noob. But I gotta ask. ...the sutuation....You legally purchased a handgun from a dealer and did an FFL transfer. Is there anyone out there that really thinks you didn't just "register" your ownership of that weapon? I know we can do ftf in Indiana with just a visual of a valid DL and LTCH ( if we are being responsible) but it is in a federal database with the original owners name associated with it. Am I missing something or are we just kidding ourselves that we are not "registered" gun owners?

There is no database, the ATF is prohibited from creating one.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

A matter of some dispute, Carmel.

Remember ATFE has admitted on national television to having one.

 

[jbombelli]

There is no database, the ATF is prohibited from creating one.

Since when does our beloved government pay attention to what it is prohibited from doing?

 

[netsecurity]

Is this the same gun registration system that has cost NY millions every year to maintain, and never has helped solve a single crime? The one they are cancelling?

 

[Jarhead77]

Guys. If your name has been checked against a database for any reason there is a record of it if nowhere else but in the data logs. All it takes is a court order to see it. They know you were buying a weapon!!

 

[Sylvain]

Gun registration is very dangerous for democracy.

 

[CarmelHP]

A matter of some dispute, Carmel.

Remember ATFE has admitted on national television to having one.

When was it last updated is the question. They started to form one about 20 years ago then were defunded. What have they admitted to?

 

[Donnelly]

And of course we know that no one in the BATFE or the Justice Dept. would ever break the law or do anything unethical. Like the "Fast and Furious" gun scandal.


Sarcasm indicated, of course.

 

[ryknoll3]

When was it last updated is the question. They started to form one about 20 years ago then were defunded. What have they admitted to?

I know I read somewhere that they were digitizing all of the records from FFL's that had gone out of business.

Here's the details of what go into this non-existent database:

The ATF Firearms Tracing System (FTS) contains firearm tracing information from millions of traces performed since 1989, and consists of several databases:
1. Multiple Sale Reports. Over 460,000 (2003) Multiple Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4 - a registration record with specific firearms and owner name and address - increasing by about 140,000 per year). Reported as 4.2 million records in 2010.[5]
2. Suspect Guns. All guns "suspected" of being used for criminal purposes but not recovered by law enforcement. This database includes (ATF's own examples), individuals purchasing large quantities of firearms (including collectors of older firearms rarely used in crime), and dealers with "improper" record keeping. May include guns “observed” by law enforcement in an estate, or at a gun show, or elsewhere. Reported as 34,807 in 2010.[5]
3. Traced Guns. Over 1.2 million (2002) detail results from all traces. ATF reported 343,746 guns were traced in 2009, and a total of 4 million traces since inception.[5] This is a registration record which includes Names and Addresses of the first retail seller and purchaser.
4. Out of Business Records. Data is manually collected from paper Out-of-Business records (or input from computer records) and entered into the trace system by ATF. These are registration records, indexed by serial number, which include name and address, make, model, serial and caliber of the firearm(s), as well as data from the 4473 form - in digital or image format. In March, 2010, ATF reported receiving several hundred million records since 1968.[13]
5. Theft Guns. Firearms reported as stolen to ATF. Contained 330,000 records in 2010.[5] Contains only thefts from licensed dealers and interstate carriers (optional).[5] Does not have an interface to the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) theft data base, where the majority of stolen, lost and missing firearms are reported.

 

[Liberty's Teeth]

This too.

Right on brother. That is the number one reason why we should never register our weapons. Most fools in this country don't know the number one reason for the second amendment...You showed it in pictures.

 

[Mad Anthony Wayne]

Despite the tin foil hats, there is no database. Gun dealers have to do traces on firearms used in crimes all the time. The ATF starts with the manufacture, they find out what distributer it went to, they talk to them and find out what FFL they sold it to, then they contact the gun shop to see who it was sold to, then if they go to that individual and he says "I sold it at the Indy 1500 to a resident of the state", it's over right there. I guess the fact that your gun has a serial number is in a sense a database, but if they had all that info at their fingertips they wouldn't be wasting everyone's time with these traces.