The US Electrical Grid has Been Penetrated by Foreign Spies

[BloodEclipse]

April 08, 2009
Clarice Feldman
[FONT=times new roman,times]The Wall Street Journal has some very [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]distressing news[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]:[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]WASHINGTON -- Cyberspies have penetrated the U.S. electrical grid and left behind software programs that could be used to disrupt the system, according to current and former national-security officials.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]
The spies came from China, Russia and other countries, these officials said, and were believed to be on a mission to navigate the U.S. electrical system and its controls. The intruders haven't sought to damage the power grid or other key infrastructure, but officials warned they could try during a crisis or war.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]
"The Chinese have attempted to map our infrastructure, such as the electrical grid," said a senior intelligence official. "So have the Russians."[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]
The espionage appeared pervasive across the U.S. and doesn't target a particular company or region, said a former Department of Homeland Security official. "There are intrusions, and they are growing," the former official said, referring to electrical systems. "There were a lot last year."[/FONT]
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Everyone have a backup ginny yet?

 

[Jack Ryan]

Yep.

 

[hornadylnl]

Uh, all they have to do is watch our evening news, correct? I've seen maps of it on there before. Don't you love it when they advertise where to attack?

 

[CarmelHP]

Why would you put critical infrastructure controls on communications systems that can be penetrated from the outside?

 

[citizenvain]

Why would you put critical infrastructure controls on communications systems that can be penetrated from the outside?

As someone in the IT field , yeah, let me reapeat what you just said...WHY ON GOD'S GREEN FRIGGIN EARTH would they have such cirtical infrastructure available to outside connections?? This should be all tight point to point systems with designated terminals that are NOT connected to any other communication systems. And should be systems designated with interactive (not remote) access ONLY using smart cards or other bio-metric technology.

 

[Cwood]

Why would you put critical infrastructure controls on communications systems that can be penetrated from the outside?

As someone in the IT field , yeah, let me reapeat what you just said...WHY ON GOD'S GREEN FRIGGIN EARTH would they have such cirtical infrastructure available to outside connections?? This should be all tight point to point systems with designated terminals that are NOT connected to any other communication systems. And should be systems designated with interactive (not remote) access ONLY using smart cards or other bio-metric technology.

but... but... that's expensive

 

[repair]

but... but... that's expensive

I heard that the gov has trillions of extra dollars

 

[CarmelHP]

I heard that the gov has trillions of extra dollars

That's only for important stuff like hiring ACORN to do the census.

 

[bigg cheese]

(don't forget that it was ARPANET that started the interweb. It started being "open" to the world)


It is way to expensive too lay our own lines, and then in theory, that still wouldn't solve all problems. Fiber used to be nearly impossible to penetrate, but it's not so unreasonable now with the patching solutions they have to fix breaks.

Obviously, you're going to need experts to get into this kind of stuff, so it is more secure, but nothing is 100%.

 

[jeremy]

Got to love all this smart grid ****! Yippee!

 

[CarmelHP]

(don't forget that it was ARPANET that started the interweb. It started being "open" to the world)


It is way to expensive too lay our own lines, and then in theory, that still wouldn't solve all problems. Fiber used to be nearly impossible to penetrate, but it's not so unreasonable now with the patching solutions they have to fix breaks.

Obviously, you're going to need experts to get into this kind of stuff, so it is more secure, but nothing is 100%.

So, it's much better to connect everything to the web, which was designed without much security, and which every Tom, Dick, and Harry has access from all over the globe than to install limited access communication links that would be much harder to penetrate? You're not seriously making this argument, are you?

 

[bigg cheese]

Not quite. The argument I am making is that governments such as Russia and China have the resources to break in either way, so why waste resources on it?

They'll probably end up having to send operatives over here, costing them more, true enough. But we will expend exponentially more on laying cable to connect everything. Personally, I'm a proponent of having these run on a closed circuit with an actual person running the show at each plant, station, factory, etc. -- not sending data all over the country just because we like having everything connected.

We just need better firewalls (and hackers of our own to keep them on their toes as well )

 

[bigg cheese]

...

If data needed to be transferred, do it by way of hand carry on a Brinks truck or something. Back when I used to do tape backups of our servers where I work, I'd frequently keep one from each server with me (just in case the place burned to the ground.)

 

[mrmarky]

Reload-em if ya gottem They're om the way.. Aldo Leopold said "if you are not doing something FOR it,,, you ARE doing something AGAINST it" !!!

 

[El Cazador]

I'm gonna have to ask friends just how much of the critical systems are internet run. I do know that Duke, IPALCO (AES) and even most REMC use dedicated microwave uplinks and SCADA (Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition) systems for control function. Most substations and switchyards don't have hard data/phone lines run to the control buildings on site. They do have microwave dishes on towers, and wireless SCADA antenna there. REMC's also have been trying out Broadband over PowerLine (BPL) to save the cost of installing microwave systems.

Regarding China and Russia as being behind the intrusions, I wouldn't rule out domestic groups first. Earth First, ELF, ALF, and all the eco-terrorists would have more to gain from knocking out the power grid than would foreign governments. The WSJ article even admitted China would be shooting itself in the foot to disrupt the US power grid. Plus, domestic "terror operatives" wouldn't have near as hard of time infiltrating companies and working from the inside to add software viruses into the systems, especially secure systems.

 

[CulpeperMM]

This story may be a ruse intended to get the public behind nationalization of internet security and a "Czar" over public communications for our "protection".

I smell a rat.

 

[bigg cheese]

Regarding China and Russia as being behind the intrusions, I wouldn't rule out domestic groups first. Earth First, ELF, ALF, and all the eco-terrorists would have more to gain from knocking out the power grid than would foreign governments.

It's kind of iffy, but I understand where you're coming from. What I would debate is who has the Opportunity (read: skill and resources). I would highly doubt that eco-terrorists or other grass-roots organizations would be able to either find someone with the skill to do what we're thinking, and much less be able to come up with the money to pay a third party.

The WSJ article even admitted China would be shooting itself in the foot to disrupt the US power grid. Plus, domestic "terror operatives" wouldn't have near as hard of time infiltrating companies and working from the inside to add software viruses into the systems, especially secure systems.

good points.

 

[jedi]

This story may be a ruse intended to get the public behind nationalization of internet security and a "Czar" over public communications for our "protection".

I smell a rat.

BINGO!!!!
BINGO!!!!

 

[El Cazador]

What I would debate is who has the Opportunity (read: skill and resources)

Most of the domestic eco-terrorists are young, idealistic, and college educated. These kids darn near had laptops in their cribs, so building a fairly sophisticated virus program is truly child's-play for them. Hacking is a hobby for a whole bunch. Look at the IPhone and all the apps for it now, or all of the free apps for Palm. A quick search of Google shows "hacks" for about every cell phone going, and a whole lot of computer programs have free "get-arounds" and enhancements out there. So, skill is not in short supply.

As for resources,they may be partially supported by proxies, but they often have the skill and college training needed by companies in this electronic world, so they have an unexpected windfall by having both access to the computers and financial resources just by being hired by the companies they want to hurt.

 

[Arm America]

I smell a rat as well.

Besides, there are much easier ways to disrupt the grid without
leaving tracks to be followed back to the source.