The Inconvenient Truth About Electric Vehicles

[AmmoManAaron]

I've been saying this for over a decade. Every time energy undergoes a phase change, energy is lost in the process. It is more efficient to burn a fuel directly in an internal combustion engine (ICE) than it is to make electricity, charge a battery, and then use the battery to power the vehicle. CNG, LNG, propane, or butane burned in an ICE are all more efficient than batteries. Electric vehicles are NOT the future.

The Inconvenient Truth About Electric Vehicles | Zero Hedge

 

[Twangbanger]

Remember though...electric vehicles aren't designed to be a "solution." They're intended to be a constraint. They're designed to transition your mobility-consumption from a relatively unregulated power source (Starvin' Marvin), onto one that unelected regulators can control more easily.

Electricity, for the most part, is a regulated utility. How much gas you can buy from Starvin' Marvin is controlled only by your wallet and the market conditions. But the electric generating utility generally cannot add substantial capacity without going through a permit process. Once you are getting your mobility-power from a regulated utility, the regulators have got you by the clankers. They can control how much people drive by capping generating capacity.

And unfortunately, they've convinced many of the younger generation, some of whom are too ignorant to understand just how much energy it takes to make cars move, that they will be able to power their cars for free off backyard solar cells.

 

[BugI02]

If you think he's right or has done the math correctly, I would ask you to consider why virtually all in service locomotives are diesel-electric

 

[actaeon277]

If you think he's right or has done the math correctly, I would ask you to consider why virtually all in service locomotives are diesel-electric

Convenience.
it is easier for them to use multiple locomotives when it's electric.
One crew running one engine (cow) can control multiple helpers (calf).

 

[Leadeye]

Personally I don't care what other people want to drive, but leadership shouldn't be subsidizing one sort car or another with my money. Car companies can make boutique cars and power companies can sell boutique electricity at an up charge to cover the additional costs if it's important to buyers. I expect to pay more for cars with high horsepower and sharp styling, but it's my money.

 

[Twangbanger]

If you think he's right or has done the math correctly, I would ask you to consider why virtually all in service locomotives are diesel-electric

Did you read the article?

Using your own example, if you think he's wrong...I ask you to consider why locomotives are diesel-electric instead of electric-electric?

 

[actaeon277]

electric-electric

 

[hoosierdoc]

But not electric-battery-electric

electric-electric

 

[actaeon277]

Did you read the article?

Using your own example, if you think he's wrong...I ask you to consider why locomotives are diesel-electric instead of electric-electric?

But not electric-battery-electric

YOU said electric-electric.
I displayed electric-electric.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Locomotives use electric motors for the final drive mainly because of the torque profile that electric motors provide. Easier control of multiple drivers is a nice side benefit. It is NOT because of any type of increased efficiency.

ETA: I knew someone would ask that

 

[Mikey1911]

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There is only one electric locomotive, and it's PRR's GG1.

Another inconvenient and unfortunate truth is that I remain too dumb to properly attach a picture of one of them.

PRR looked twice (1938 and 1962) and Conrail looked once (1979) at taking their 12kV/25 Hz electrification west of Harrisburg to Conway Yard west of Pittsburgh, on what then was probably the heaviest-traveled freight railroad in the world--and the economics didn't work out. Diesel-electrics were far more affordable; four or five times the thermal efficiency of steam locomotives with the controllability benefits of electric traction but without the need for the fixed generation, transmission, and distribution assets.

 

[eric001]

Meh. Energy access controlled by the electric companies...Can't be any worse than energy access controlled by the oil companies. Not like either ones are exactly shining examples of benevolence in our world, now are they?

I am all for energy access by fusion. Just because it isn't realistic--YET--doesn't mean it won't be some day.

And if/when it IS realistic, I just have to wonder which set of companies will lobby hardest and cry foul the loudest trying to suppress it???

 

[Paul30]

There are many more variables to consider. I like the idea of electric vehicles, they may not be the solution for all users, but they have their place.

The technology is very simple and clean. They don't need the numerous parts an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) uses. No fuel pump, no exhaust system, no belts, no transmission, etc. etc. If you walk into an Auto Zone, most of the replacement parts you see there, are not needed on an electric car. Gas has to be trucked to the station, electricity travels on high voltage wires. Last time I checked, an electric vehicle cost to charge it was about the same as filling your car for about $2. Maintenance involves filling the windshield washer fluid. No oil changes, coolant changes, spark plugs, air filters, fuel filters, etc. etc. You have a battery, motor, and speed controller. The motor should be able to be replaced in about an hour if designed well. The motor wear should be in the bearings, so simply change out the bearings and you have an engine overhaul. Most electric vehicles have a shorter range unless you pay a lot for the larger battery like the Tesla model S. I do like how they offer the battery in different price points so you can buy what you need. The average person doesn't drive more than 100 miles per day and could plug in at night and be charged by morning. The electric car has some limitations, but they are trade offs.

https://matter2energy.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/wells-to-wheels-electric-car-efficiency/

The Bolt should be released soon too. [url]http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109627_fast-charging-a-2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-electric-car
[/URL]

 

[Cameramonkey]

There are many more variables to consider. I like the idea of electric vehicles, they may not be the solution for all users, but they have their place.

Correct. Like the golf course, around the neighborhood, in the plant, a stadium, etc.

 

[Route 45]

An electric car would be perfect for most urban dwellers or suburbanites. The huge majority of my seat time in my SUV or truck is less than 20 miles round trip from my house. As long as someone lived fairy close to work, they'd almost never have a situation where they needed the extended range of a gas engine. I would, however, have another vehicle for extended trips. Or, if I decided on only having 1 vehicle for everything, a hybrid works very well. I used to own a 2010 Prius. While not exactly the most exciting car to drive, it was extremely reliable and a smooth ride. Plenty of space for 4 people and groceries. And never less than 40 mpg, even driving it like I stole it. (Which I did most of the time, in sport mode)

 

[churchmouse]

If you think he's right or has done the math correctly, I would ask you to consider why virtually all in service locomotives are diesel-electric

Because it is easier to transmit power to steel wheels on steel rails pulling more tonnage than we can imagine. Controlling the big servo motors and not direct coupling the diesels through a clutch and drive line.

 

[KLB]

An electric car would be perfect for most urban dwellers or suburbanites. The huge majority of my seat time in my SUV or truck is less than 20 miles round trip from my house. As long as someone lived fairy close to work, they'd almost never have a situation where they needed the extended range of a gas engine. I would, however, have another vehicle for extended trips. Or, if I decided on only having 1 vehicle for everything, a hybrid works very well. I used to own a 2010 Prius. While not exactly the most exciting car to drive, it was extremely reliable and a smooth ride. Plenty of space for 4 people and groceries. And never less than 40 mpg, even driving it like I stole it. (Which I did most of the time, in sport mode)

It should be illegal to even claim to have a "sport" mode on a Prius.

 

[jamil]

Meh. Energy access controlled by the electric companies...Can't be any worse than energy access controlled by the oil companies. Not like either ones are exactly shining examples of benevolence in our world, now are they?

I am all for energy access by fusion. Just because it isn't realistic--YET--doesn't mean it won't be some day.

And if/when it IS realistic, I just have to wonder which set of companies will lobby hardest and cry foul the loudest trying to suppress it???

There is always a snail darter to save.

There are many more variables to consider. I like the idea of electric vehicles, they may not be the solution for all users, but they have their place.

The technology is very simple and clean. They don't need the numerous parts an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) uses. No fuel pump, no exhaust system, no belts, no transmission, etc. etc. If you walk into an Auto Zone, most of the replacement parts you see there, are not needed on an electric car. Gas has to be trucked to the station, electricity travels on high voltage wires. Last time I checked, an electric vehicle cost to charge it was about the same as filling your car for about $2. Maintenance involves filling the windshield washer fluid. No oil changes, coolant changes, spark plugs, air filters, fuel filters, etc. etc. You have a battery, motor, and speed controller. The motor should be able to be replaced in about an hour if designed well. The motor wear should be in the bearings, so simply change out the bearings and you have an engine overhaul. Most electric vehicles have a shorter range unless you pay a lot for the larger battery like the Tesla model S. I do like how they offer the battery in different price points so you can buy what you need. The average person doesn't drive more than 100 miles per day and could plug in at night and be charged by morning. The electric car has some limitations, but they are trade offs.

https://matter2energy.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/wells-to-wheels-electric-car-efficiency/

The Bolt should be released soon too. Fast-charging a 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV electric car

Fine. I have nothing against electric cars except government subsidizing them. You want one, YOU pay for it. All of it. If the market can't make them affordable, you shouldn't expect special tax breaks or credits to make it affordable for you on other people's dime.

 

[HubertGummer]

There is always a snail darter to save.



Fine. I have nothing against electric cars except government subsidizing them. You want one, YOU pay for it. All of it. If the market can't make them affordable, you shouldn't expect special tax breaks or credits to make it affordable for you on other people's dime.

Same for windmills.

 

[HoughMade]

There will always be petroleum powered cars in my lifetime as they can do things that electric vehicles can't do, easier- like go cross country and refuel in minutes. However, with wider use of nuclear power (if people can get away from their primitive superstitions) and some exciting things happening in geothermal, electricity may get even cheaper.

Simply comparing efficiencies misses an important point...the cost of energy to begin with. If electricity and gas/diesel all come from the same fossil fuels, the greater efficiency of liquid fuels is a strong point. If they don't, but electricity come from clean, cheaper sources, even if petroleum based fuels maintain their greater efficiency, electricity may still be more cost effective. We are not there yet, but it may be coming.