The 2017 General Salma Hayek discussion thread...Part 3!!!

[hoosierdoc]

It's laughable we're trying to use Flynn to impeach trump for trying to lead too early after eight years of ignoring scandal and nearly electing the most corrupt lady ever

 

[jamil]

For Conyers, Franken AND TRUMP, unless criminal charges are filed, the only "solutions" are political. All three passed the one "political jury", the voters, but only Trump did so with the voters knowing full-well the allegations against him. The only other two political solutions available are censure and impeachment/expulsion which can only be mete out by congress-critters, who determine what to do based upon what will yield them the most power AND keep themselves elected, not upon what is right and wrong.

And, since you're making distinctions, here's one. Conyers' (alleged) conduct IN THE WORKPLACE is the only one of the three that I know of that would warrant immediately being fired anywhere else but congress. There is a new headline with exactly that story in the news every single day since Weinstein. I haven't read a single account of either Trump, nor Franken, sexually harassing a co-worker in their mutual workplace.

If people think their elected officials have crossed a line when information like this comes up, they should demand an impeachment. Will they? Probably Conyers' constituents would not impeach him. Probably Franken's constituents would not impeach him. Probably Roy Moore's constituents will vote for him, and he'll win his election, even with the full understanding that the dude perv'ed teenagers when he was 30--and maybe he still does. Who is willing to hold their own accountable? Anyone?

Alpo apparently isn't. I mean, who hasn't stuck their tongue down the throats of any random subordinate? Who hasn't grabbed a little ass? Ain't no big deal. We got agendas to legislate.

 

[jamil]

It's laughable we're trying to use Flynn to impeach trump for trying to lead too early after eight years of ignoring scandal and nearly electing the most corrupt lady ever

If this is about the Trump administration reaching out to the Russians after winning the election, we can say that's perhaps inappropriate. It's no more evidence of collusion than Obama's hot-mic gaffe though.

So far I think the Russia/Trump collusion is mostly wishful thinking. I'm not saying it shouldn't be investigated, but I'd rather only facts be reported about it. They hyperbole is actually believed by the wistful thinkers such as Kut. I kinda believe the Washington Post guy. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. No way to tell at this point. But the bitter colluders will cling to every hope that there is.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Lawyers out there... when I've seen "materially misleading" statement charges before, they usually include something like a quote from the target and then list facts that show it was a lie and the that the target knew it was a lie at the time. I'm not seeing that here... Which makes me scratch my head.

This is much like the Papadopolous charges where they used some vague date where he interviewed for a job as being "part of the administration" or found out he was being considered or would be offered the position, versus just posting the start date from a paystub that indicates the first day he was paid as an employee.... sketchy.

 

[Woobie]

If this is about the Trump administration reaching out to the Russians after winning the election, we can say that's perhaps inappropriate. It's no more evidence of collusion than Obama's hot-mic gaffe though.

So far I think the Russia/Trump collusion is mostly wishful thinking. I'm not saying it shouldn't be investigated, but I'd rather only facts be reported about it. They hyperbole is actually believed by the wistful thinkers such as Kut. I kinda believe the Washington Post guy. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. No way to tell at this point. But the bitter colluders will cling to every hope that there is.

I think anything like this should be investigated. I'll gladly spend tax dollars to make sure these clowns walk the line. The stakes are too high to not investigate.


But I haven't seen anything damning at all. Frankly, I haven't seen much Jello, much less concrete evidence. It isn't particularly hard to see who is foaming at the mouth on Russia, and get an idea of where they are getting their information and what they are biased to believe about whom. When real evidence comes out, I'll be on here calling for jail time. But allegations by a political opponent? Yawn.

Same goes for Conyers and Moore on the sex stuff. Show me the evidence. There was evidence for one of the Franken claims, so I got mad about that one. But he gave a heartfelt apology and she accepted, like adults. That one has been handled. Show me evidence, not circumstances that make someone you don't like look guilty.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If this is about the Trump administration reaching out to the Russians after winning the election, we can say that's perhaps inappropriate. It's no more evidence of collusion than Obama's hot-mic gaffe though.

So far I think the Russia/Trump collusion is mostly wishful thinking. I'm not saying it shouldn't be investigated, but I'd rather only facts be reported about it. They hyperbole is actually believed by the wistful thinkers such as Kut. I kinda believe the Washington Post guy. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. No way to tell at this point. But the bitter colluders will cling to every hope that there is.

Apparently, I'm the only one reading what's actually being said by the courts and the news services. But, hey I we got nothing but time to see how this plays out. After 3 charges levied on 3 different persons... a president who seems to be asking pretty much everybody to end the investigation, a DOJ Chief who is refusing to answer questions... I'm enjoying the denials. We shall see won't we.
What a disaster presidency.... full of incompetents.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I think anything like this should be investigated. I'll gladly spend tax dollars to make sure these clowns walk the line. The stakes are too high to not investigate.


But I haven't seen anything damning at all. Frankly, I haven't seen much Jello, much less concrete evidence. It isn't particularly hard to see who is foaming at the mouth on Russia, and get an idea of where they are getting their information and what they are biased to believe about whom. When real evidence comes out, I'll be on here calling for jail time. But allegations by a political opponent? Yawn.

Same goes for Conyers and Moore on the sex stuff. Show me the evidence. There was evidence for one of the Franken claims, so I got mad about that one. But he gave a heartfelt apology and she accepted, like adults. That one has been handled. Show me evidence, not circumstances that make someone you don't like look guilty.

Ok, what does your gut or inclination tell you? This is all a "nothingbuger?"

 

[KLB]

So still no illegal collusion 'eh? Ok...
And no comment on there being one charge, and an admission of guilt, out the gate? Perhaps you should ask the lawyers their profession opinion of what that often implies.

Puts him in the same category as Martha Stewart at this point.

Seems more like we can't get you for anything else, but we will get you for something.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Puts him in the same category as Martha Stewart at this point.

Seems more like we can't get you for anything else, but we will get you for something.

I think most people have a pretty good idea what's up, but will be in denial until the bitter end.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Apparently, I'm the only one reading what's actually being said by the courts and the news services. But, hey I we got nothing but time to see how this plays out. After 3 charges levied on 3 different persons... a president who seems to be asking pretty much everybody to end the investigation, a DOJ Chief who is refusing to answer questions... I'm enjoying the denials. We shall see won't we.
What a disaster presidency.... full of incompetents.

And yet every measure of anything in this country is better than a year ago.

what a dramatic turn of hundreds of random good luck

 

[Woobie]

Ok, what does your gut or inclination tell you? This is all a "nothingbuger?"

Ever see a prosecutor charge someone based on their gut?

I don't believe in the Force. And even if I did, I sure as heck wouldn't be asking to end someone's career or for their imprisonment based on how I felt. Hokey claims and ancient investigative methods are no match for some good evidence at your side, kid.

 

[bwframe]

Russia, Russia, Russia...

Meanwhile we're about to get tax bill passed TODAY.

.......................

In other news;

What's the over/under on Conyers resigning at his press release in the next hour?

.....I'm betting the scumbag won't.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And yet every measure of anything in this country is better than a year ago.

what a dramatic turn of hundreds of random good luck

Ok, and? Does that change the fact that members of Trump's administration/campaign committed crimes and their fitness for the security of the nation should be seriously questioned? Let's say Trump does beat this rap, and he didn't know anything about the stuff going on. Is it not even slightly concerning that he surrounded himself with so many crooks, and unwittingly put them in very powerful positions? Seems like very questionable judgement, bordering on incompetence.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Ever see a prosecutor charge someone based on their gut?

I don't believe in the Force. And even if I did, I sure as heck wouldn't be asking to end someone's career or for their imprisonment based on how I felt. Hokey claims and ancient investigative methods are no match for some good evidence at your side, kid.

I'm not a prosecutor, you're not a prosecutor. I'm simply asking your opinion. I'm sure you have opined on other things prior to a legal ruling, so I'm asking what your inclination is.

 

[jamil]

Apparently, I'm the only one reading what's actually being said by the courts and the news services. But, hey I we got nothing but time to see how this plays out. After 3 charges levied on 3 different persons... a president who seems to be asking pretty much everybody to end the investigation, a DOJ Chief who is refusing to answer questions... I'm enjoying the denials. We shall see won't we.
What a disaster presidency.... full of incompetents.

So. My thoughts are confirmed. It's actually not as much about Trump. It's at least as much about the Trumpers who called Obama incompetent. You've made enough similar statements that makes this pretty clear. You're pissed or took it personally that people called Obama incompetent and perhaps you thought it was because he's black, and not because he's the leftest president we've had since Jimmy Carter, who, btw, the same people would say was also incompetent. And white.

But anyway...

I can think for myself. It's all just wishful thinking at this point. Courts? What are the courts saying exactly. When have the courts said there was collusion between Trump and the Russians? And don't think for a minute that I'm opposed to the idea that there could have been collusion. It's just that I'd like to see some actual evidence that there was.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...oesnt-prove-collusion/?utm_term=.ef55b6a08d90

"Democrats are already straining themselves trying to suggest that Flynn’s plea is just the beginning and that there is more to come. But as far as Flynn is concerned, that is unlikely. It is just wishful thinking on their part. It’s not as though he pleaded guilty only to leave unresolved matters for later."
​

 

[Woobie]

I'm not a prosecutor, you're not a prosecutor. I'm simply asking your opinion. I'm sure you have opined on other things prior to a legal ruling, so I'm asking what your inclination is.

I have opined on all sorts of things prior to a legal ruling. But that wasn't the standard I gave. Don't try to move my goal posts. My standard is evidence. Not even what a court rules as evidence. Pictures, audio, multiple witnesses to the same particular event, documentation or statements by the accused.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So. My thoughts are confirmed. It's actually not as much about Trump. It's at least as much about the Trumpers who called Obama incompetent. You've made enough similar statements that makes this pretty clear. You're pissed or took it personally that people called Obama incompetent and perhaps you thought it was because he's black, and not because he's the leftest president we've had since Jimmy Carter, who, btw, the same people would say was also incompetent. And white.

But anyway...

I can think for myself. It's all just wishful thinking at this point. Courts? What are the courts saying exactly. When have the courts said there was collusion between Trump and the Russians? And don't think for a minute that I'm opposed to the idea that there could have been collusion. It's just that I'd like to see some actual evidence that there was.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...oesnt-prove-collusion/?utm_term=.ef55b6a08d90

"Democrats are already straining themselves trying to suggest that Flynn’s plea is just the beginning and that there is more to come. But as far as Flynn is concerned, that is unlikely. It is just wishful thinking on their part. It’s not as though he pleaded guilty only to leave unresolved matters for later."
​

Race card... out of the blue? Nope, not going there.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I have opined on all sorts of things prior to a legal ruling. But that wasn't the standard I gave. Don't try to move my goal posts. My standard is evidence. Not even what a court rules as evidence. Pictures, audio, multiple witnesses to the same particular event, documentation or statements by the accused.

Ok, you don't have an opinion.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Ok, and? Does that change the fact that members of Trump's administration/campaign committed crimes and their fitness for the security of the nation should be seriously questioned? Let's say Trump does beat this rap, and he didn't know anything about the stuff going on. Is it not even slightly concerning that he surrounded himself with so many crooks, and unwittingly put them in very powerful positions? Seems like very questionable judgement, bordering on incompetence.

are they a bunch of incompetents? Because the country is freaking blazing ahead under their leadership

 

[jamil]

Ok, what does your gut or inclination tell you? This is all a "nothingbuger?"

Your gut is full of bias. It's okay to go with your gut and hope you're right. But your gut is just the subconscious accumulation of your life's thoughts and beliefs. It's less prone bias when you let your conscious mind form conclusions from what you can see and prove. I'm not saying not to trust your gut at all. Maybe there's an itching feeling that there is some there there. Okay. So evaluate that against what you can know and see if it's so.

Wanting there to be some there there to get even with the Trumpers, doesn't put any there there. Reality does that apart from your desires.