The 2017 General Salma Hayek discussion thread...Part 3!!!

[jamil]

Well, perhaps I'm reading or interpreting what is being said on these pages in a more alarming manner than necessary. It certainly appeared to me that there is some equivalency being drawn between Franken's and Moore's actions. Or equating Franken and Clinton's actions. Or just Democrat hypocrisy.

I'm at a loss here.

Not an equivalence. One deserves jail. The other simply deserves to lose his power.

 

[Alpo]

Deserves to lose his power....for an "action" that took place before he came to "power"?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yes. There are varying degrees of sexual misconduct. I don’t think anyone disputes that. So where do we draw the line to say what is acceptable behavior and what is not? And, what are the consequences, proportional to the severity?

If it’s okay for Conyers to *do* all that he did, is it also okay for Trump just to talk about having the power of celebrity to just grab women by the *****?

I’d just like the left and right to be consistent with their own. I think it’s never okay to use one’s power of position to get away with violating someone’s person like all these people have done. Society should demand hat this is unacceptable and that the consequences at least require those people who abuse thier power, to lose their power. Use your power to force a wet kiss—we all know the difference between innocence and perversion—you lose your power.

Talk? There were a number of women that came forward and made essentially the same claims against Trump that are being leveled against Conyers. Trump has the added nugget of talking about it openly. Conyers should be G-O-N-E (so should Franken).... Trump, well some are willing to overlook his transgressions.

 

[jamil]

Talk? There were a number of women that came forward and made essentially the same claims against Trump that are being leveled against Conyers. Trump has the added nugget of talking about it openly. Conyers should be G-O-N-E (so should Franken).... Trump, well some are willing to overlook his transgressions.

Everyone who abuses their power should lose it.

I guess that'd make Pence POTUS. And if we hurry, my election slogan could still come true. Pence 2017!

 

[jamil]

Deserves to lose his power....for an "action" that took place before he came to "power"?

Who. Roy Moore?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Everyone who abuses their power should lose it.

I guess that'd make Pence POTUS. And if we hurry, my election slogan could still come true. Pence 2017!

I'm OK with Mike Pence.

 

[Alpo]

Everyone who abuses their power should lose it.

I guess that'd make Pence POTUS. And if we hurry, my election slogan could still come true. Pence 2017!

I'm sorry, you may clean your desk and leave the building by noon. Please turn in your badge to security on the way out the door.


...

There isn't a person alive who hasn't abused his authority over another human being in their life. Maybe Jesus. But, Ghandi doesn't make the cut, and I doubt you do either.

 

[actaeon277]

.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm OK with Mike Pence.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't put "forced wet kisses" and fanny groping in the same category as penetration with a penis or finger digit. That may be too old school for some of you, but it just doesn't rise (pun not intended) to the level of a major sex crime.

So, it's nothing I really want to debate, but that is where I would be if in the jury pool. And it doesn't really cut across political parties or gender.

A unwanted wet kiss may be disgusting, but I don't consider it a sex crime, democrat/republican/gay/lesbian/seaotter

Believe it or not, I agee with you, well, mostly. A single unwanted kiss, especially in a situation like a date, where the two weren't on the same page, isn't criminal, it's clueless. Forcing a kiss, when the other person is struggling to get away from you, is misdemeanor battery, and not a sex crime. Groping a woman's buttocks without her consent, is douchey, and again, at most misdemeanor battery which includes any unwanted, "rude" touching of another person. Again, not a sex crime. Unwanted, non-consensual groping of a woman's breasts, or genital area, even through clothes, is defined as a felony sexual assault in most jurisdictions. I agree that it is worse, and the penalty should be more severe, than butt-grabbing or kissing and is less severe than any kind of unwanted penetration or oral sex, which is usually the dividing line, I think appropriately, between the legal terms sexual assault and rape. And, finally, sexual assault committed by an adult against a child is the absolute worst.

So, I see the "scale" as ranging from clueless, to douchey, to misdemeanor criminal, to low-level felony criminal, to really bad felony criminal, to really should be capital punishment felony criminal, IMO.

As an aside, you've used the term "rape" to describe Moore... have you read a source that alleges he had unwanted penetrative sex with a woman? Or, have you a source that groping a minor (child molestation) is defined as statutory rape in Alabama. I've found neither. Not trying to lessen the grotesque allegation against him, but hyper-ventilating it does help either.

Talk? There were a number of women that came forward and made essentially the same claims against Trump that are being leveled against Conyers. Trump has the added nugget of talking about it openly. Conyers should be G-O-N-E (so should Franken).... Trump, well some are willing to overlook his transgressions.

For Conyers, Franken AND TRUMP, unless criminal charges are filed, the only "solutions" are political. All three passed the one "political jury", the voters, but only Trump did so with the voters knowing full-well the allegations against him. The only other two political solutions available are censure and impeachment/expulsion which can only be mete out by congress-critters, who determine what to do based upon what will yield them the most power AND keep themselves elected, not upon what is right and wrong.

And, since you're making distinctions, here's one. Conyers' (alleged) conduct IN THE WORKPLACE is the only one of the three that I know of that would warrant immediately being fired anywhere else but congress. There is a new headline with exactly that story in the news every single day since Weinstein. I haven't read a single account of either Trump, nor Franken, sexually harassing a co-worker in their mutual workplace.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Another one bites the dust. Michael Flynn charged, and taken into custody, for lying to FBI.
...related to, yep. Russia, Russia, Russia.

Did you read what he is admitting to lying about?

 

[Alpo]

I haven't read the lurid details of Moore's "sexual misconduct" with an underage female (s), so I may have thought "statutory rape".

Conyers, ought to have gone long ago.

Franken....I personally don't like Al, and never thought he was funny....but I haven't read anything yet that seems to rise to the level of "suggest you resign, big guy".

 

[hoosierdoc]

I haven't read the lurid details of Moore's "sexual misconduct" with an underage female (s), so I may have thought "statutory rape".

Conyers, ought to have gone long ago.

Franken....I personally don't like Al, and never thought he was funny....but I haven't read anything yet that seems to rise to the level of "suggest you resign, big guy".

Yeah, it's not like Al touched someone's foot

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal

franken: I have to go but bahney fwank? He's OK???

 

[Alpo]

So, are you encouraging restroom interchange between boys?

I always try to leave an empty urinal between me and a fellow male...and NEVER use a toilet for NO. 2.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I haven't read the lurid details of Moore's "sexual misconduct" with an underage female (s), so I may have thought "statutory rape".

Conyers, ought to have gone long ago.

Franken....I personally don't like Al, and never thought he was funny....but I haven't read anything yet that seems to rise to the level of "suggest you resign, big guy".

I believe I once mildly chuckled at the raw stupidity of having a "satellite dish" upon his head, and that's about it... the rest of his "humor" was inane.

As long as Franken remains in the Senate (and Conyers in the House), it completely neuter's the Democrat's "war on women" narrative against Repubicans, and it politically boomerangs back on them, especially disillusioning their female voters... not enough to get them to vote Republican, but maybe enough to demotivate them from voting at all. Pelosi has figured this political calculus out... and Dems are all about political power.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Did you read what he is admitting to lying about?

So still no illegal collusion 'eh? Ok...
And no comment on there being one charge, and an admission of guilt, out the gate? Perhaps you should ask the lawyers their profession opinion of what that often implies.

 

[hoosierdoc]

So still no illegal collusion 'eh? Ok...

Regarding what? The statement is Flynn was working to tell Russia to not over react to Obama'a asshattery in expelling diplomats. To me that sounds like repairing relationship with a major nuclear power that the current president was sabotaging.

collusion of what exactly? Collision is not a crime officer.

edit: "out of the gate"? Is that what sage this massive investigation is in? Sure I realize he'll get a plea deal to flip on someone.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

So still no illegal collusion 'eh? Ok...

Absolutely right. Not a single charge about the content of the discussions with the Russian ambassador, solely two charges for lying about the content of those discussions to FBI agents.

No collusion charges, only misleading (lying to) the FBI.

ETA: This CNBC link has the barely two page charging document, most of which is boilerplate.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/01/court-schedules-plea-hearing-for-flynn-at-1030-am-et.html

 

[hoosierdoc]

So, are you encouraging restroom interchange between boys?

I always try to leave an empty urinal between me and a fellow male...and NEVER use a toilet for NO. 2.

just showing recent examples for what it takes for Senator to resign from his conduct

 

[jamil]

I'm sorry, you may clean your desk and leave the building by noon. Please turn in your badge to security on the way out the door.


...

There isn't a person alive who hasn't abused his authority over another human being in their life. Maybe Jesus. But, Ghandi doesn't make the cut, and I doubt you do either.

Wow. I'm really trying to give you the benefit of doubt here. But you're making it very difficult to interpret this any other way. You seem to be expending a lot of energy to select reasons to exclude some people from scrutiny and not others. And the purpose seems obvious to me.

You accused posters in this thread of equating all levels of inappropriate behavior. Then you do the same in your statement above.

I've never used any power or authority over someone to treat them inappropriately. It's actually absurd to suggests that everyone with any power does this. Most people don't. Most people know to keep their uninvited tongues out of their coworkers'/subordinates' mouths. Most people now to keep their hands off of their coworker's/subordinate's ass. It's not really all that hard to treat other people with dignity. It's not really all that hard to honor other people's personal space. MOST people do that. And the one's who don't, should have their power taken from them.