The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[jamil]

Stand that analogy on its head. I cannot help but think if trump had 90% of the MSM eating out of his hand, and needing an underwear change from the mere contemplation of the crease of his pants; he would be conducting his briefings in a more conventional manner

As it is, he is in hostile territory every time he is in the same room with them and I think extreme circumspection is prudent

I have to admit, I'm still waiting for the NBC interview Trump where they ask softball questions like, what's it like to be so awesome? I think no questions like that are forthcoming. And rightly not. The press was negligent for the previous 8 years. They're overzealous now.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm not 100% certain, but fairly confident that Iran has not explicitly stated that it would use nuclear weapons if they had one. I'm not even sure Iran has stated that they want them, only that they had a right to them if they choose.

I seem to recall a very plain declaration that Israel would be scrubbed from the map.

 

[Dddrees]

I cannot help to think that if Obama conducted the briefings the exact same way, there would be a meltdown on this board. This is childish behavior. They cannot handle the press so they pull this silliness. It's amateurish behavior, I expect better from the most powerful office in the world......

You mean, the Administration doesn't like the criticism. Oh and then there's that thing where the Administration can never seem to get their lies in synch with the President's lie.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I seem to recall a very plain declaration that Israel would be scrubbed from the map.

Ok, still, that does not satisfy the posed position.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Ok, still, that does not satisfy the posed position.

The context was 'if we had nuclear weapons'.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The context was 'if we had nuclear weapons'.

I don't believe so. Iran is has proven itself over and over again to be a rational state actor. As much as people want to think that loons are running the country, that really not the case. Iran has not conducted an aggressive war in eons, but rather proxy conflicts to support its interests (as does every other nation). The more logical explanation is that "if" Iran sought nuclear weapons, it would be solely for deterrence. Given the United States usurped their democracy and installed a dictator, actively sought to undermine their Revolution, supported the Iraqi invasion, has invaded/attacked regional nations (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria), littered the region with military assets, supports Saudi Arabia, and lists them as "evil" nation, it's completely understandable why they would want the deterrence offered by nuclear weapons.

 

[Birds Away]

Yes, yes, poor Iran. A beacon of hope for the oppressed among nations.

 

[jamil]

I don't believe so. Iran is has proven itself over and over again to be a rational state actor. As much as people want to think that loons are running the country, that really not the case. Iran has not conducted an aggressive war in eons, but rather proxy conflicts to support its interests (as does every other nation). The more logical explanation is that "if" Iran sought nuclear weapons, it would be solely for deterrence. Given the United States usurped their democracy and installed a dictator, actively sought to undermine their Revolution, supported the Iraqi invasion, has invaded/attacked regional nations (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria), littered the region with military assets, supports Saudi Arabia, and lists them as "evil" nation, it's completely understandable why they would want the deterrence offered by nuclear weapons.

Oh yeah. This grand democracy you speak of ousted the evil dictator appointed by the great satan and democratically elected a benevolent supreme leader. Just like Castro was democratically elected in that grand democracy as well.

 

[Birds Away]

Oh yeah. This grand democracy you speak of ousted the evil dictator appointed by the great satan and democratically elected a benevolent supreme leader. Just like Castro was democratically elected in that grand democracy as well.

The missiles in Cuba only produced mushroom clouds of love and fellowship.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Oh yeah. This grand democracy you speak of ousted the evil dictator appointed by the great satan and democratically elected a benevolent supreme leader. Just like Castro was democratically elected in that grand democracy as well.

I see you aren't familiar with the history of Iran. Iran had a legit democracy, and that United States planned and coordinated a coup that lead to the installation the Shah in 1953. Today's Iran is not a real democracy, and I was not speaking of their current govt.

 

[jamil]

I see you aren't familiar with the history of Iran. Iran had a legit democracy, and that United States planned and coordinated a coup that lead to the installation the Shah in 1953. Today's Iran is not a real democracy, and I was not speaking of their current govt.

I'm familiar with Iran's history. I'm not a fan of meddling in other nations' affairs. But we're talking about what Iran is today. For practical purposes it doesn't matter what they were yesterday or how they got to what they are now.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm familiar with Iran's history. I'm not a fan of meddling in other nations' affairs. But we're talking about what Iran is today. For practical purposes it doesn't matter what they were yesterday or how they got to what they are now.

I disagree. "Yesterday," when it lasts from 1953-1979, and involves a dictatorship can be quite fresh in the minds of those who experienced it. Who or what you were yesterday, plays a big role in who you are today. This is exhibited in both govts and people. I'm not going to tell Koreans to get over the Japanese Occupation. I'm not going to tell Tartars to get over Russian oppression, I'm not going to tell old grizzled WW2 vets to forgive the Japanese for their atrocities. I know their history from books, not experience.

 

[jamil]

I disagree. "Yesterday," when it lasts from 1953-1979, and involves a dictatorship can be quite fresh in the minds of those who experienced it. Who or what you were yesterday, plays a big role in who you are today. This is exhibited in both govts and people. I'm not going to tell Koreans to get over the Japanese Occupation. I'm not going to tell Tartars to get over Russian oppression, I'm not going to tell old grizzled WW2 vets to forgive the Japanese for their atrocities. I know their history from books, not experience.

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying, and you're broadening the topic beyond the context which prompted my comments. You're saying Iran is a stable actor. I disagree. They've been a consistent state sponsor of terrorism (you've diluted that by referring to it as 'proxy'). So for this context it doesn't matter how they got there. They're there now. I'd rather the US had never been entangled in the ME, but we are.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying, and you're broadening the topic beyond the context which prompted my comments. You're saying Iran is a stable actor. I disagree. They've been a consistent state sponsor of terrorism (you've diluted that by referring to it as 'proxy'). So for this context it doesn't matter how they got there. They're there now. I'd rather the US had never been entangled in the ME, but we are.

Lol, this is a Deja vu moment. We we're just discussing the hypocrisy of one country doing one thing, and then complaining about another doing essentially the same thing. I'm sure you remember the conversation, so I won't expound. Anyways the United States has also been a consistent sponsor of terrorism (since we aren't using proxy). Contras?

 

[jamil]

Lol, this is a Deja vu moment. We we're just discussing the hypocrisy of one country doing one thing, and then complaining about another doing essentially the same thing. I'm sure you remember the conversation, so I won't expound. Anyways the United States has also been a consistent sponsor of terrorism (since we aren't using proxy). Contras?

Have I said I agree with it? The Iran/Contra thing was wrong. That was not an official foreign policy. And that deed was criminally prosecuted against some of the people involved. That's not a state sponsorship of terrorism. That was a breach of trust against American citizens.

And again, bringing us back on point, it doesn't matter how we got to this point. You said Iran is a stable actor. I think the facts to not support that.

 

[2A_Tom]

No, it's a hypothetical. If Obama would have done the EXACT same think at his briefings the outrage would have been immense...and rightfully so. We expect more from the office. It appears that they cannot handle the press which is kinda funny actually. They are trying not to "feed the beast" that is the media all the while Trump continues to tweet responses that do the exact opposite. This smells more like a child having a tantrum. Very low brow behavior.

The hypothetical does not work. If the media gave Trump half a chance this would not be the case.

Had the media treated Obama this way, His supporters would have been sniping the ancors.

 

[Dddrees]

The hypothetical does not work. If the media gave Trump half a chance this would not be the case.

Had the media treated Obama this way, His supporters would have been sniping the ancors.

Oh yes, poor poor Donald. Nobody gives the habitual liar and conspiracy theorist a chance. LOL

 

[indiucky]

I cannot help to think that if Obama conducted the briefings the exact same way, there would be a meltdown on this board.

I am sure if Trump had the press corps groveling on their knees and giggling while they made goo goo eyes at him he might lighten up a little on the camera ban....I mean camera's in the press briefings have this rich history going back to nigh on the 1990's!!!! Why way back then AR 15's didn't even have flash hiders or bayonet lugs on them...

[video=youtube;2iY9Rv9xKIE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iY9Rv9xKIE[/video]

Yep....They just let him have it....

[video=youtube;LHk8ToWgPCk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHk8ToWgPCk[/video]

Let's play Hardball!!!!!!

[video=youtube;tR4zG1daS1E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR4zG1daS1E[/video]

The point being if the press treated Trump the way they treated Obama you may have a point...It's apples and oranges....

IMHO based on historical context....

 

[Dddrees]

I am sure if Trump had the press corps groveling on their knees and giggling while they made goo goo eyes at him he might lighten up a little on the camera ban....I mean camera's in the press briefings have this rich history going back to nigh on the 1990's!!!! Why way back then AR 15's didn't even have flash hiders or bayonet lugs on them...


Yep....They just let him have it....



Let's play Hardball!!!!!!

]

Poor little Donald he never did anything wrong. Poor little Donald he gets treated so unfairly. Give me a break. LOL

 

[indiucky]

Poor little Donald he never did anything wrong. Poor little Donald he gets treated so unfairly. Give me a break. LOL

I never said any of that....I pointed out what a blind person can see....The press groveled over Obama and they hate Trump...Hate is not a family value and love should trump hate...At least that's what I heard once upon a time ago by some folks with rainbow flags and others with vagina hats on their heads....

Actions have consequences and what a joy it is seeing the Washington press corps being knocked around....It's beautiful...

I have seen you make decent responses...The one above is beneath you....