Taurus Judge vs Springfield XDS

[mashtatatoz]

I have a Judge Poly Defender. It's pretty cool for what it is, but if we're talking carry/personal defense, I'm casting my vote for the XDS.

 

[IndyLongColt]

No no no, please read the first post...and watch the videos....partly my fault for what I titled this thread, but really XD part is to compare ballistics to a "similar" 45 pistol......and that you "could" carry if you so desired. Me, mines a nightstand Federal 000 buck loaded bedroom buddy. I think outside,ever used, it would be 45 colt.

Second video is some ballistics using handgun specific buck shot.

Sorry for the confusing title.....but the very first post explains it.

 

[mashtatatoz]

Sorry, that's my bad. Probably shouldn't try to watch Braveheart and read.

 

[45fan]

Mostly agree although mine does quite better beyond that with Federal Ammo 000, real similar to the vids I linked to. Ive also had some pretty
Mediocre results with soft buck. The harder the better. Federals 000 copper coated and the shot cup is really good stuff. I dont like any bird shot...or the shot/bb mixture round....too many flyers at very close range.

The harder shot keeping a tighter patter should be correct, I know that tends to be the case with larger shotguns and buckshot as well. Im sure the shot cup has a lot to do with the that too. As long as you know what its limitations are, and are comfortable with it, I see no problems at all.

As far as accuracy at range, with 45 Colt loads, I have never personally shot one, but the one assessment I have seen of that gun at varying ranges lent me to believe it shoots a bit high with 45 Colt. I am sure that could be regulated a bit better with load development and testing, but it is something to keep in mind. As far as accuracy with standard pistol loads, the tests I have seen didnt lead me to believe that it was lacking in any way that would prevent its use as a SD (or even hunting, if it had a 4" barrel) within the limits of the cartridge it is chambered in.

 

[superjoe76]

I have the Judge with the pic rail, on which I put a light. I bought it for home defense and that is all it will ever be. By the bed each night.

 

[Hammer]

I do not own the Judge, but did recommend one to my best friend. He is single, no close neighbors and wanted it for home defense. I have shot the gun, and while it is effective I do not like the inconsistent spread of the projectiles for certain situations.

Say this is your daughter, would you take the shot at 20 feet?

 

[palerider0485]

judge<xds sorry i just dont buy into the judge hype, ill keep my 15 rounds of 9mm over 5 round bulky revolver.

 

[IndyLongColt]

I do not own the Judge, but did recommend one to my best friend. He is single, no close neighbors and wanted it for home defense. I have shot the gun, and while it is effective I do not like the inconsistent spread of the projectiles for certain situations.

Say this is your daughter, would you take the shot at 20 feet?

View attachment 26107

At 7 yards, 21 feet, mine holds a pretty tight group with the 000 I use at home...would I take the shot? Hope I never have to find out.......

But you also just condemmed the use of a shotgun for home defense as well if thats your argumemt for not using a Judge with shot.

Ill take my chances....hard to argue the 12 ga at home but it also fails this scenario....maybe moreso.

 

[IndyLongColt]

judge<xds sorry i just dont buy into the judge hype, ill keep my 15 rounds of 9mm over 5 round bulky revolver.

Judge>Xds nah, just kidding, I like em both

What hype? The hype that it shoots near identical ballistics as the XDs at SD distances with similar 45 rounds?

Or the hype that SD handgun ammo gets 18" penetration in gel?

Thats fine you dont want one, but you cant deny what it can do, thats all Im saying.

 

[Hammer]

But you also just condemmed the use of a shotgun for home defense as well if thats your argumemt for not using a Judge with shot.

Not with a smooth bore.

I hope no one has to be in that position either. But if I had to put the biggest downfall of the Judge on here, I would say it would be this scenario.

 

[IndyLongColt]

Not with a smooth bore.

I hope no one has to be in that position either. But if I had to put the biggest downfall of the Judge on here, I would say it would be this scenario.

Point taken......which is why mines loaded in home with Federal 000. It uses a specially designed shot cup which in my 3" barrel Judge, makes it shoot similar to a smooth bore. The cup holds the shot together so it doesnt engage the rifling and holds for a great pattern well past 7 yards. Theres a very big variety of ammo to use in the Judge/Governor with pretty wild differing results. Soft buck can be all over the place, and bird shot is to be left for the birds or just playing around. Some Ive shot, I wouldnt dream of using for SD, but Federal 000 is an amazing round!!!

 

[palerider0485]

Judge>Xds nah, just kidding, I like em both

What hype? The hype that it shoots near identical ballistics as the XDs at SD distances with similar 45 rounds?

Or the hype that SD handgun ammo gets 18" penetration in gel?

Thats fine you dont want one, but you cant deny what it can do, thats all Im saying.

yeah, im sure it penitrates well. but compared to an xd, id take the xd for self defence, more rounds, faster reloads. with such a short barrel shooting buck shot you cant have a very long effective range. im just not impressed by the judge.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Or the hype that SD handgun ammo gets 18" penetration in gel?

Thats fine you dont want one, but you cant deny what it can do, thats all Im saying.

Those numbers don't jive with other tests using calibrated ballistic gel. For penetration tests to be meaningful, the gel must be BB calibrated. Average penetration is around 5-7" or 9-13" in properly calibrated gel tests with the 00 and 000 buckshot, respectively. For example: Ballistic Gelatin Results

Comparing buckshot to pistol bullets is generally a poor analogy. When he says they are the same size as a 9mm he really means they are the same diameter. The mass isn't the same, which means the sectional density isn't as good, which means that at a given velocity they will penetrate less. Basically, round things suck at penetrating when compared to silo shaped things when flung with the same energy. I would also point out that few people recommend ball ammo in a 9mm, and comparing a non-deforming ball to a hollowpoint isn't apples to apples.

But, let me ask a few questions about the Judge itself:

How reliably does the Judge extract ammo when you're in "hurry up and reload this thing" mode? Long cylinders and short extractors usually equal tricky ejection, especially under stress. How reliably do speedloaders work? Again, longer cartridges are tougher to speed load because they wobble more when you're trying to line them up with the holes. How good are the sights, in both day light and in the dark? A couple inches of spread isn't enough for me to give up usuable and reliable sight pictures in less than ideal lighting conditions. After all,if I would have missed with a .357, chances are none of those 000 balls hit anything that matters either. If I hit center mass with the 000 good enough for all of the balls to hit, well, that .357 would have hit there too, and its a pretty proven round when you put it where it ought to go.

 

[chezuki]

Those numbers don't jive with other tests using calibrated ballistic gel. For penetration tests to be meaningful, the gel must be BB calibrated. Average penetration is around 5-7" or 9-13" in properly calibrated gel tests with the 00 and 000 buckshot, respectively. For example: Ballistic Gelatin Results

Comparing buckshot to pistol bullets is generally a poor analogy. When he says they are the same size as a 9mm he really means they are the same diameter. The mass isn't the same, which means the sectional density isn't as good, which means that at a given velocity they will penetrate less. Basically, round things suck at penetrating when compared to silo shaped things when flung with the same energy. I would also point out that few people recommend ball ammo in a 9mm, and comparing a non-deforming ball to a hollowpoint isn't apples to apples.

But, let me ask a few questions about the Judge itself:

How reliably does the Judge extract ammo when you're in "hurry up and reload this thing" mode? Long cylinders and short extractors usually equal tricky ejection, especially under stress. How reliably do speedloaders work? Again, longer cartridges are tougher to speed load because they wobble more when you're trying to line them up with the holes. How good are the sights, in both day light and in the dark? A couple inches of spread isn't enough for me to give up usuable and reliable sight pictures in less than ideal lighting conditions. After all,if I would have missed with a .357, chances are none of those 000 balls hit anything that matters either. If I hit center mass with the 000 good enough for all of the balls to hit, well, that .357 would have hit there too, and its a pretty proven round when you put it where it ought to go.

STOP....MAKING....SENCE.


We don't advocate or tolerate that kind of crap here on INGO.

 

[richardraw316]

This stuff seems good. makes me want another judge now.
Taurus Judge/Governor Ammo Test: Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion 45 Colt review - YouTube

 

[richardraw316]

more videos.
Ammo Test: Lehigh Maximum Expansion .45 Colt in Denim and ballistic gelatin - YouTube
Judge/Governor Ammo Accuracy Test: Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion 45 Colt review - YouTube

 

[IndyLongColt]

As far as the link with the penetration results above, all but 2 were performed with soft buck shotgun ammo. Even in that test, the Federal handgun 000 buck penetrated the same as the 45 hollow point, which was about 11 inches. You can throw all of that other crap as far as you can. It wasnt designed for short barrels like the Judge/governor. As Ive said here before, ammo makes a big difference. The guy in the first videos has shot more ammo from the judge than probably anyone.

If my nightstand gun can penetrate the same as the 45 colt hollow point, and pattern well, and put four holes in the BG, then thats pretty good for MY needs. Its not my only gun, I never said it was better than a 357 or any other caliber. It just sits beside me at night. Others are close.

I dont have any speedloaders so cant comment there, but I havent had any issues with extraction either.

And as far as sights...love my front fiber optic, works for me.

And of course if you missed with your 357 or any other gun, yah the 000 would probably miss too. Who said the Judge was magic and would hit when something else missed?. Thats rediculous.

 

[palerider0485]

judge< 8 shot .357

 

[IndyLongColt]

judge< 8 shot .357

Yah, but when I empty my 2 1/2" cylinder of 000 ,it makes 20 holes..

So Judge 20 shot>8-shot .357. Hahahahah

But seriously, thanks for that awesome input.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I never said it was better than a 357 or any other caliber. It just sits beside me at night. Others are close.

Ok, let's focus on that. If its not better, why make it your go to gun?