Taking Kids to the Range

[GuyRelford]

One of my great pleasures in managing Eagle Creek Pistol Range is working with kids who accompany one or both parents to the range. It is so fun to help teach them safe gun handling skills and marksmanship. Along those lines, today was both "the best of times and the worst of times" at the range, and I'd appreciate some feedback from my fellow INGOers.

On the very positive side, we had several kids at the range today, including a 12-year-old who came with his dad who had just bought a used .45 ACP S&W. Neither of them had ever fired a gun before, so I broke out my Ruger Mark III .22 and some ammo and taught them the basics of marksmanship with it (which they loved). The young man got VERY accurate very quickly, and had a huge grin on his face the whole time. It was so much fun. Then they both turned to the .45 and did just fine. They promised to become regulars, and want to bring mom back with them the next time. Great fun!!

On the very negative side, we had a man show up today with three young children. He said the four of them wanted to share a lane, and his kids were going to shoot Airsoft guns. He wanted to know what the charge would be. I told him that we usually charge on a per-person basis, but since his kids were young and because I love to have kids at the range, we would just charge him for one additional person on the lane and the other two kids could shoot all day for free. I thought this was pretty reasonable, but he frowned, said he'd have to think about it, then packed up his kids and left.

He later sent me a very long and very nasty email, calling me "an idiot," said I had "no business sense" and saying I have "big gun man on campus syndrome" (whatever that means) since I tried to "rape him" out of an additional $5 for his 3 kids to shoot for an hour, or $15 for all day, and promised to tell all of his friends to never shoot at ECPR again.

So what do you think INGOers, do you expect your kids to shoot for free when you go to the range? Or do you expect a reasonable discount? Or do you expect a "per person" fee - regardless of age? I'd really appreciate the feedback, since I love having kids at the range and was very surprised at this man's reaction today.

Thanks!!

Guy

 

[shooter1054]

I don't think that you are being unreasonable. On the other hand, at the club I belong to, family- up to age 18- is included. That said, that is my club's rules. If you normaly charge per person, then the "customer" doesn't have a leg to stand on IMO.

 

[85t5mcss]

Guy, IMHO you were being more than reasonable. Per person is a very fair way for charging since more people will tie up the lane even longer. I paid for my underage daughter to go to ECPR 2 weeks ago and had no problem with it. (I also kept an eye out to make sure noone was waiting for a lane as often as I could-we would have stepped back to make the room as necessary since we had all day). I am not sure I would worry about this man's comments, my guess is that he has something else going on in his life and unfortunately you had won his daily prize of ranting.

Not to mention one adult with 3 children can be a handful and I am somewhat positive that they would be scrutinized a little more just to make sure that firearms were being handled safely. Nothing wrong with it, but dad wouldn't be able to watch all 3 to see what is going on.

Again, my opinion only, he wants to use 1 lane and 3 children all the while expecting ECPR ROs to keep them and all the other patrons safe but he doesn't want to pay for it is just plain nonsense. He could have easily called or come alone to speak with you instead of ruining his kids' day.

Not real sure why this person's actions bother me so much (even though it is a one sided story and have no reason to doubt you). I would like to think that he would have been ready to pay full price (down economy doesn't mean discounted rates) if he had already brought his kids. As a parent I do not want my daughter to see a pissing match that isn't required. Just setting a bad example. I know you are a parent as well and after speaking to your daughter and the amount of respect she has I have a pretty good idea of some of the fundamentals she was raised with. I guess in the end you had gotten a faceful of what society is becoming/has become and that I feel is what is bothering me.

Is it possible this gentleman is just so spoiled now or as a child and thinks that he will get his way no matter what? Possible. I definitely wouldn't want to deal with him in a restaurant. But, it sounds like you had given him a very reasonable offer to begin with and I feel you haven't done anything wrong even in the eyes of most gun owners. I can only assume what his friends think of bad guns anyways. Maybe this is not the sport for him. Sounds like he may be happier looking into another hobby that he can enjoy with his children.

ETA-I forgot to answer your other question in the post. My daughter is 16 and will shoot a regular amount when she goes out with me so I expect to pay full price (if you can call it that since I am on another 10 visit pass). I still feel the price is very competitive. And easily the best deal for me with location. Only downside is no centerfire rifles. At least the 22s can be brought.

 

[DHolder]

I too love to shoot with youth. I took my children, 5, 7, 12, 14 shooting today. We worked on some Appleseed positions and safe transitions. They were rewarded with the CLANG of steel and the swing of bowling pins. And, for the cherry on top, a few rounds at the steel with the AR.

I really enjoy the time we spend shooting, teaching them to be responsible. If they learn responsability and self control now, they will know how to be, when they get older.

I dont worry about group size, hits or misses, we just go to have a safe fun day as a family.

Keep up the good work, thats what the community needs to see from our ranges, not that they are a "good ole boys club" full of gun snobs or gangster types, yet are a place to bring the family.

 

[ATM]

Obviously you couldn't overcome his strong entitlement mentality with the offer of a mere discount.

You were gracious in offering a discretionary discount that you didn't have to.

The fact that it wasn't enough and even earned you a nasty follow-up response, while disheartening, is not shocking.

Brush it off.

 

[gcoop]

Sir, I would not think about this matter again. You were reasonable and doing your job. Keep up the good work you do for the range. I don't think you or anyone else will miss this person at that range one bit!

 

[ralphb72]

I go to two different outdoor ranges where I am a member so no daily fees for us. Before I joined those I did go to a range down at Brookville lake once, I think it was at Quakertown, with two kids. The ranger told me the cost and I paid it. He said we should have brought our own ear and eye protection, but that he had a few extras and rented me some for myself and two boys at a reasonable price.

Now that I know more about what I am doing, and if I were going to a range for the first time, I would either look up the costs on the net or call so that I know up front how much it is going to be and what their rules are.

Your web site says $15 for an hour $5 extra per hour for two people on a lane. It does not address additional people on the lane beyond two, nor does it say anything about children.

If I were coming there with three kids, I would have expected to pay at least $20 for the first lane, and possibly another $20 for the other two kids on their own lane. If I wanted to put us all on one lane, I would have expected to pay at least $30, but I'd probably call and make sure I could have all three kids on my lane with me, or else just plan on getting two lanes and paying $40.

For $50 a year for a "family" membership at one of the places near me where I am a member, there is a stocked pond, an archery range, a pistol range, a rifle range, and a skeet/trap shooing area, and no daily or hourly fees.

So although I don't think I'll come visit you soon, I do think your proposal was perfectly acceptable, even generous.

 

[lovemachine]

Guy, you were VERY considerate in doing what you did.

It's just unfortunate that there are people out there who expect to have everything they want handed to them in a silver plate.

F him, and keep doing what you're doing,

And you can expect to see my wife and I to visit your range in the very near future.

 

[edsinger]

I would say he is IGNORANT and quite frankly an arse and then forget about it...

 

[snowrs]

I really don't understand the extra money for another person on a lane if you are paying by the time. That being said everytime I went to the local public range with my wife I paid it without complaint because it is their range so their rules. Your prices are also very reasonable. My local range would have been 30 an hour for 2 people.

 

[Brown]

Your range, your rules, your prices. If he asks and you tell him the price he has a choice now doesn't he? you gave him his option and he left. he needs to grow up and set a better example for his kids.

 

[Westside]

your range your rules.

I think you are more than fair you can charge by the lane or by the person. it's your business. You offered it to him at what would have been half price so I don't see a problem. Let him find another place to shoot. If he didn't have enough courage to complain to your face it isn't worth your time. I would only send an email/call if I couldn't get a real person to complain too.

Just my two cents.

 

[HDSilvrStreak]

Guy, I'm sure you're learning by now that no matter how hard you try, it is simply impossible to please everyone. That doesn't mean you should quit trying though as the rest of us see that and appreciate your efforts. In the long run, this should result in increased business.

I understand the need for an add on fees for additional shooters. Each person on the range, whether they are currently shooting or not, needs to have the attention of the range officers. It is their duty and to make sure the entire range is operated in a safe manner. This includes keeping an eye on things going on behind the line.

As to children on the range, I've never had a problem at all and really love to see it. I have a 7 year old grand son and am looking forward to the day when I can take him out and let him throw some lead with my Ruger Mk III. Then only thing about children on the range that is bothersome is that so many of them shoot better than me.

Keep up the good work at the range.

 

[indianajoe]

Airsoft? I suggest half-price. Nerf guns: a buck an hour. Let them throw marshmallows downrange at no charge. I think you were more than accommodating, Guy.

 

[TVon]

Guy,

I was there today with my two sons (14 and 15). We were shooting the .22 rifle. The rifle was left to me after my grandfather passed away. It had been sitting in my closet for nearly 2 decades. I had honestly forgot I had it and it was a great pleasure finding it, cleaning it and sharing it with my sons today.

I witnessed you helping not only the gentlemen with his 12 year old son but also how you helped several other people on the line. You and the range officers you have working for you are always professional, courteous and helpful.

My sons (and hopefully my 11 y.o. daughter) are looking forward to coming back on the INGO free shoot day.

Don't let one jackwagon throw you. You are doing an awesome job and are VERY fair with how you handle pricing.

 

[JohnP82]

First off good for you for helping out the young shooters and enjoying what you do! I too love seeing the young ones getting involved and having a safe and good time enjoying our sport.

As far as the guy wanting something for free I say you were very fair. You could have charged him for each person, but you chose to cut him a break. In my opinion a very nice gesture on your part and plenty fair! He is probably just one of the types that there is no pleasing. The same type that complains all the time at restaurants in hopes of getting a free or discounted meal. You did more than you needed to as far as being fair, don't sweat it. If this is the type of person he is then it is probably better off he will not be coming back. You did what you could so again good for you!

 

[jgreiner]

I love taking one of my kids with me to the range......just wish I could get there more often.....

The range makes the rules, and sets the prices. If someone doesn't like it, they can start their own range...or go buy some rural acres to set up their own private range.

you are not out of line by any means. The e-mailer is an *sshat.

 

[DThurston]

Guy - VERY well done on doing some handling/training with the one family. It's the passion that drives the success of ANY endeavor or business. Also, there's a clear benefit to you in helping them get acquainted in terms of safety for themselves and others. Thank you for that.

I took a rifle and my 2 pistols down the Atterbury with my 7y.o. son for a short shooting outing. Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised when I wasn't charged for my son in addition to myself for the hour we were there. I figured that even though we were on one lane, it's still another body to watch and a young boy at that!

Only other thing I can add is that if that jackwagon is telling people HE knows to not come out there, that can only be a good thing. Either his buddies are just as idiotic as he is, OR, they're the smart ones and will figure he's just blowing smoke.

KUTGW

 

[pitbull88]

Actions seem reasonable

First, kudos on your commitment to kids. As a father of four, I definitely appreciate that. Second, you are in business and your decision was fair and reasonable. Keep up the good work.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

$5 for three kids?! Shame on you! I'm never coming there again and I'd tell all of my friends... if I had any.