Storage of powder & primers

[jedi]

Found this nice article on how much is too much and how to store power & primers. Be safe out there.

Beartooth Bullets > Tech Notes > Smokeless Powder & Primer Storage

--EDIT--
Short Summary:
No more than 10,000 primers should be stored in a residence.
No more than 50 lbs of smokeless podwer can be transported by a private vehicle.
More than 25 lbs but less then 50 lbs of smokeless powder in private vehicle needs min 1" thick wooden box.
Under 25 lbs of smokeless powder can be stored in a residence in container it came.
More than 25 lbs needs to be in a wooden 1" thick or greater box.


-Jedi

 

[03A3]

Thanks for posting this.
I read this article and others from time to time as a refresher.

I used to be one of those that stored powder and primers in ammo cans. No more.

Building proper wooden storage boxes of 1" nominal thickness is on my short list of things to do.
I don't see that it has to be anything elaborate, just boxes with a hinged (or unhinged) lid on top and no latch. That will keep pressure from building up and let it escape upward. Or at least that's my take on it. If anyone has any suggestions based on firsthand experiance I'm all for it.

 

[pjcalla]

Thanks for the link. I didn't know there were laws that pertained to the amount of powder and primers one could have in his private residence.

Why is one only allowed 10k primers? I understand the fire hazard argument, but why is that number 10k? Why not 20k? 50k? It just seems to be an arbitrary number. Hell, I've only just started reloading and have 2k. I've heard of people buying 20k+ at a time, so do the "primer police" scan online retailers and visit the homes of those who make large purchases? How often do people actually get in trouble? What fines, etc. apply to this law?

There isn't a law that outlines how much live ammunition you can have, why try and limit the amount of primers/powder you can have? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[03A3]

I don't remember where, but I've read more than once that "primer" includes loaded ammo.

 

[pjcalla]

I don't remember where, but I've read more than once that "primer" includes loaded ammo.

Okay, but then by the logic in the OP's link, you shouldn't store loaded ammo in ammo cans. I'm sure there are folks on this board that have WAY more than 10k live rounds and/or primers. I'm not there, but it wouldn't be hard to reach, once you start counting live rounds AND primers.

 

[jedi]

Thanks for the link. I didn't know there were laws that pertained to the amount of powder and primers one could have in his private residence.

Why is one only allowed 10k primers? I understand the fire hazard argument, but why is that number 10k? Why not 20k? 50k? It just seems to be an arbitrary number. Hell, I've only just started reloading and have 2k. I've heard of people buying 20k+ at a time, so do the "primer police" scan online retailers and visit the homes of those who make large purchases? How often do people actually get in trouble? What fines, etc. apply to this law?

There isn't a law that outlines how much live ammunition you can have, why try and limit the amount of primers/powder you can have? It just doesn't make any sense.

1st IANAL and this is not legal advise.

You are not breaking the law per say so much as you are breaking regulations. NFPA 495: Explosive Material Code is where the text with no more than... comes from and NFPA stands for National Fire Protection Association. So they don't have any "law/arrest/fines" powers.

They just happen to be experts on the subject. Legislators or those whoe write laws and/or local ordiance use the NFPA expertise to figure out how to word a law. I'm not aware of any Indiana law that limits ammo, pwoder, primers for residential use.

What I suspect based on other fourm readings I have found is that your local government (town/city/etc) probably has an ordiannce that says something line "all lots zoned for residential use will follow the HFPA xxxxx standard".

& thus that is how you get the 10K limit. Now does someone actually come to your house and check. No. But it probably occurs when a fire at home happens and it later is determine that you had 1 billion primers, etc.

Not sure if your home owner's insurance would kick you off if you had say 1 billion primers as oppose to the limits recommended by the HFPA.

For commerical that is a whole other ball of wax.

 

[03A3]

Okay, but then by the logic in the OP's link, you shouldn't store loaded ammo in ammo cans. I'm sure there are folks on this board that have WAY more than 10k live rounds and/or primers. I'm not there, but it wouldn't be hard to reach, once you start counting live rounds AND primers.

I see your point, and to be honest I don't know what the truth is about a loaded round being considered a primer. That may be the way that our homeowners insurance company would look at it.
Also there is a big difference between a can of ammo and a can of primers. I'm sure you're familiar with the term "Mass detonation".

 

[skey01]

Good excuse for a summer home in Northern Michigan...

 

[sloughfoot]

I am far more worried about the gasoline in 5 gallon containers (multiple)and the propane bottles in my garage.

My primers, and I won't say how many thousands I have, pale in comparison to the damage that could be caused by my stored propane bottles for my gas grill.

This thread gets an official "yawn" from me. FWIW

And if you guys think about it, there are lots of far more hazardous stuff in your homes too.

Interesting points about primers and ammo, but let us always strive to be real. Houses have been blown up because of flour in the air too. For real.

 

[bluewraith]

Rep for the info. It's interesting to know, and I've wondered what the powder limits were. I don't think I'll reach the limits for any of those, but I'm thinking about starting a small stock of primers and powder. Fairly cheap, and great shelf life..

Also a good fire story read.

 

[jedi]

I am far more worried about the gasoline in 5 gallon containers (multiple)and the propane bottles in my garage.

My primers, and I won't say how many thousands I have, pale in comparison to the damage that could be caused by my stored propane bottles for my gas grill.

This thread gets an official "yawn" from me. FWIW

And if you guys think about it, there are lots of far more hazardous stuff in your homes too.

Interesting points about primers and ammo, but let us always strive to be real. Houses have been blown up because of flour in the air too. For real.

So did you know about those regulations on transportation about pounder in a prvate vehcile?

-Jedi

 

[CarmelHP]

Thanks for the link. I didn't know there were laws that pertained to the amount of powder and primers one could have in his private residence.

There isn't in Indiana. These are NFPA suggested model laws. Indiana hasn't adopted them. The only regulation is on black powder, not to held in quantities of greater than 50 lbs. for private use.

 

[CarmelHP]

You are not breaking the law per say so much as you are breaking regulations. NFPA 495: Explosive Material Code is where the text with no more than... comes from and NFPA stands for National Fire Protection Association. So they don't have any "law/arrest/fines" powers.

To be precise, not a regulation either. NFPA is a private standards making agency, these are advisory, some states, particularly Northeastern, enact these into law. Indiana has not enacted these.

IAALBNYL

 

[jedi]

To be precise, not a regulation either. NFPA is a private standards making agency, these are advisory, some states, particularly Northeastern, enact these into law. Indiana has not enacted these.

IAALBNYL

Thanks. Still need to determine if local governments have?

 

[Leo]

First off, great post of real reference materials Jediagh, Thank you.


I was involved with flamable materials storage through industrial work and can contribute a little to this discussion.

The powder box, some times called the "powder magazine" for insurance purposes, has special design features. It is not a hard locked cabinet. The mandatory 1 inch of wood is for insulation from heat when the room is on fire. They calculate temperature transfer for time. Finished drywall is good for this also. The Fire protection people in Illinios have demanded 5/8ths drywall because of fire resistant capabilities, that is why 5/8" is also called "fire code". If I build a 1 inch box, I would also line it with drywall, just to buy time during a fire, dryway is cheap.

Any flamables cabinet is also designed in such a way that once the temperature reached the flash point, the powder cannot build pressure, by venting. The point at which that happens is very low, like under 5 inches of water column. (It takes 27.707 inches of water to make one psig) In commercially sold powder magazines they have panels that are basically friction fit to blow the back or top out of the cabinet. (they have to be 3 feet from the wall to have a certified "installation"). Some will have calibrated spring latches to pop the hindged door open at a set pressure.

My design for a home made "powder magazine" would simply have a loose fitting lid that sets on top. YMMV, good luck

 

[03A3]

My design for a home made "powder magazine" would simply have a loose fitting lid that sets on top.

Thank you Leo. This pretty much what I had in mind, a box not a cabinet. When I build them I will also install the 5/8" drywall as you have pointed out.

Realizing that if a house fire gets to the point that the reloading supplies burns means that all is lost, my objective is to not compromise my standing with my homeowners insurance company.

 

[miguel]

Sorry for the necro bump, but I'm curious and I really didn't get it after reading the article.

If I buy a box of 1000 small pistol primers, where in my (unfinished) basement can I put them? I do have a water heater and furnace down there...how close is too close? 10 ft? 20 ft? 50 ft? Temperature is nearly constant in the mid-60s, year round.

Do I need to put that few primers into the proverbial 1" wooden box or can they sit on a wooden shelf? in their packaging? If I bought a can of powder that I wanted to keep down there, how far from the primers and other appliances should it be?

I admit complete ignorance on the safety or risks in storing such materials, but have always been curious about the instructions to not store propane tanks next to other flammable materials, then am amused when I go to Walmart, Meijer, etc. and see 20 cans of white gas next to 20 mini-propane tanks, kerosene and matches in the camping aisle.

Is reloading in an unfinished basement a no-no?

Educate this poor soul, ladies and gentlemen!

 

[kolob10]

I would be more concerned about the humidity in the basement in regards to primer storage as primers are not sold in moisture resistant containers as a rule.

 

[miguel]

We do have a good sized de-humidifier down there and it's run on a regular basis. Never had moisture issues in that regard.

Would higher humidity "ruin" the primers or make them go bang?