Startle Response

[rhino]

We've discussed the "startle response" more than once here. At least one nationally known firearms instructor (and his associates) insist that when startled, you will crouch and put your hands into a defensive position. They go so far as to train by purposely assuming that position when they start a drill. Whether or not that is a valid or useful practice is left to the reader.

However, I was just watching a youtube video wherein a guy in a ghillie suit scares dozens of women who are passing by him on a sidewalk. Their reactions vary in intensity, but there were some common elements:

• Almost all of them screamed.
• ZERO reacted in the "startle response" posture that we're told is inevitable. ZERO.
• The most common physical reaction was actually the opposite of that posture - they would straighten upward or even lean backward suddenly and pull their hands/arms into their chests. Almost all of the women did some form of this.

So, clearly the alleged universal startle response is far from universal. Perhaps the physical response to startling is sex-based or at least influenced by sex, but the "startle response" is nowhere near universal even for men.

 

[Spear Dane]

That dude is wrong. Your first 'response' is fight or flight assessment. Going into a crouch is a fight response. Sounds like some BS Yeager would teach.

 

[churchmouse]

Interesting.

 

[rhino]

That dude is wrong. Your first 'response' is fight or flight assessment. Going into a crouch is a fight response. Sounds like some BS Yeager would teach.

That individual is not among those to whom I referred. I have no idea if he subscribes to the idea or not.

 

[churchmouse]

That individual is not among those to whom I referred. I have no idea if he subscribes to the idea or not.

If you sneak up on me like that you will get punched in the face. I would hate to do that to you () but more than a few people have thought it funny to try. Duh.

 

[rhino]

If you sneak up on me like that you will get punched in the face. I would hate to do that to you () but more than a few people have thought it funny to try. Duh.

If I'm able to sneak up on you, we should both get punched in the face!

 

[PistolPastor]

Interesting. Maybe it’s because of years of grappling but my first response is to clench the person to take them down if they are close and right behind me. Wife and kids have had some close calls thinking they were funny.


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[Jackson]

That individual is not among those to whom I referred. I have no idea if he subscribes to the idea or not.

Starting in the startle response was not part of the curriculum when I took his classes. He does subscribe to the adrenaline causes lack of motor skills deal which I think is kinda similar thinking.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Sounds like Rob Pincus.

One, there's no universal startle response.

Two, you can train your startle response to be something useful.

Three, the surrender position isn't useful, but a hands up at eye level can be.

Since you've taken my class, I know you've seen videos of multiple people being startled, and almost none flung their hands up in the air. The two female clerks in the grocery store, one does and the other drops to the ground. The recoiling and drawing in limbs is probably the most common. Which sucks for both fighting and fleeing, you're off balance and your face is open.

As you are aware, one of the things we discuss in my class is pre-programming your startle response to something useful. One that gets your hands up in a stance that looks compliant but protects you from a knock-out punch while simultaneously setting you up for a disguised draw. Note we do not start in the gamer/tv/classic "surrender position" and you should not go to said position unless you are specifically told to and haven't got an opening yet.*

*generally, circumstances dictate tactics, etc etc.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Sounds like Rob Pincus.

Thank goodness. I thought everyone was going to *****foot around the name.

At Pep 2 I took a class that had a presentation of the "sacred cow slaughterhouse" and he went over the study that Rob likely got this from.

The study was done while we still had black and white film. It included someone facing away from the door, someone sneaking in, and them firing a revolver with blanks right behind them. People's natural response in that video was to put their hands up. John Hearne ran the presentation.

 

[churchmouse]

If I'm able to sneak up on you, we should both get punched in the face!

And then cheeseburgers yes...

 

[rhino]

Sounds like Rob Pincus.

One, there's no universal startle response.

Two, you can train your startle response to be something useful.

Three, the surrender position isn't useful, but a hands up at eye level can be.

Since you've taken my class, I know you've seen videos of multiple people being startled, and almost none flung their hands up in the air. The two female clerks in the grocery store, one does and the other drops to the ground. The recoiling and drawing in limbs is probably the most common. Which sucks for both fighting and fleeing, you're off balance and your face is open.

As you are aware, one of the things we discuss in my class is pre-programming your startle response to something useful. One that gets your hands up in a stance that looks compliant but protects you from a knock-out punch while simultaneously setting you up for a disguised draw. Note we do not start in the gamer/tv/classic "surrender position" and you should not go to said position unless you are specifically told to and haven't got an opening yet.*

*generally, circumstances dictate tactics, etc etc.

Indeed.

When I was watching all of those women reacting in similar ways to being scared, I also noticed that exactly none of them reacted the way some insist everyone reacts. I had to talk about it!

Thank goodness. I thought everyone was going to *****foot around the name.

At Pep 2 I took a class that had a presentation of the "sacred cow slaughterhouse" and he went over the study that Rob likely got this from.

The study was done while we still had black and white film. It included someone facing away from the door, someone sneaking in, and them firing a revolver with blanks right behind them. People's natural response in that video was to put their hands up. John Hearne ran the presentation.

It's interesting that a sacred cow can persist for so long when there are thousands of video examples available that refute the hypothesis.

 

[rhino]

And then cheeseburgers yes...

Agreed!

 

[2A_Tom]

Please post the video.

 

[rhino]

Please post the video.

I can't find the exact videos I watched because there are so many of them. Go to youtube and search for "bushman scare prank."

 

[Ddillard]

If I'm able to sneak up on you, we should both get punched in the face!

Same here. Stealth is not necessarily my best quality.

 

[jsharmon7]

My startle response is a high-pitch scream, peeing a little, and then instinctively throwing valuables at the person. Sometimes, walking by an unexpected mirror will cause this to happen. I assume this is all normal.

 

[cobber]

If you sneak up on me like that you will get punched in the face. I would hate to do that to you () but more than a few people have thought it funny to try. Duh.

There isn't a YT video of this, is there?

 

[Coach]

My startle response is a high-pitch scream, peeing a little, and then instinctively throwing valuables at the person. Sometimes, walking by an unexpected mirror will cause this to happen. I assume this is all normal.

Seems similar to my experiences. I am not sure that is inside the area code of normal but I get what you are saying. I know a guy. I just chock it up to having a lot to live for.

 

[rhino]

Seems similar to my experiences. I am not sure that is inside the area code of normal but I get what you are saying. I know a guy. I just chock it up to having a lot to live for.

We're all startled by different things as well.