Something has to be done

[Expat]

No, let's say someone applies for a job with me. How do I find out if they're illegal?

DHS | E-Verify

 

[mrortega]

If a burglar crashes your door at 2:00 AM you don't debate whether there should be more police cruising your neighborhood. I don't care about debates about better border security, reasons for illegals coming across to work, drug smuggling and the US appetite for drugs. If my son lived on the border in Texas and an armed dude warned him to leave or he would be killed, I would be there the next night with enough arms to take care of the situation. I think we all would. The question is: What to do NOW for people we aren't related to that need help and how to do it? What would you do? Not a debate but what action NOW.

 

[philo]

The problem is like a cockroach infestation - if you see on there are hundreds more you don't see.

That said, if you fear for your life - shoot to stop the threat.

If you fear being outgunned by ATF smuggled weapons remember Class III weapons can be had legally.

If you fear retaliation there's a two step process:
1-SSS
2-repeat step one as necessary

 

[fergie22]

they should post thrie property in spanish and english

PRIVATE PROPERTY

TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT

SURVIVORS WILL BE SHOT AGAIN

SEMPER FI

 

[dukeboy_318]

Losing our country and it makes me sick.

Agreed.

Hmmm sounds like the 1830s when texas went to war with them as santa anna sweppt across the southwest. This time the US government and the states for that matter can't stop it. They just figured out a better way to take over than a full out assualt. What can we do? We have to find a way to stop it, if we can do it peacefully, which would be the prefered way however, I think we are seeing that playing nice isn't getting us anywhere. Until we as legal Americans get pushed to the point where it is decided to finally start playing hardball, then we will continue to see innocent people killed down on ourside of the border. I just hope and pray that the American citizens start realizing this. Sadly though, most Americans anymore are so dang selfious that unless it directly affects them and their everyday lives and happiness, they just don't care. We are a nation that is slowly losing its national pride. Blame whichever side of the politcal arena you want,but I blame the American people, why you ask? Because we have not done enough to band together, we are a divided nation. Thhe old saying "united we stand, divided we will fall" is coming true. I just hope we can reverse course and do so quickly but its not going to be the politicans who save us, its gonna have to be the people of this great nation before we become a once great nation.

Rant over

 

[dross]

DHS | E-Verify

Yes, but E-Verify is a voluntary and a PILOT program.

This is the tricky point:

Before the mid eighties, you could hire whomever showed up and asked for a job. Then they passed a law that made employers part of the enforcement arm of, at that time, the immigration and naturalization department. You had to check documentation and fill out an I-9, and get the new employee to sign it.

That is still the state of the law today. As an employer, my legal obligation is to require a document that shows proof of identity - like a driver license, and a document that shows proof of ability to work in this country. The law tells the employers that they MUST accept certain documents, period. As an employer, I'm not legally ALLOWED to request other documentation as a condition of employment as it concerns the law.

So, if a guy shows up on his first day of employment - the first day I'm allowed to ask for any documentation - and he has documents that verify his identity and legal ability to work in this country, it no longer has anythign to do with me. Yes, I CAN call e verify, but it's still a pilot program with no force of law, and I have zero legal obligation to use it. What's more, I can still be sued if E verify returns a bad hit and I refuse to hire an otherwise qualified person. BTW, the laws penalizing employers for going too far in requiring documentation are nearly as painful as the laws penalizing employers for hiring illegals.

It ain't as simple as everyone thinks. The law needs to change before everyone starts blaming employers. We are caught between a rock and a hard place in the law.

 

[dom1104]

What a steaming pile of internet bravado.


You go down to the border with your guns..obviously all we need are a few more pissed off, untrained, middle class white gun owners from the internet.

Let me know how that works out for ya.

 

[SSGSAD]

How do you find out if someone is an illegal?

I can tell you, in Indy., anyway, but I would probably, get an INFRACTION for it .....

 

[lane440]

I have an idea - let's let them come over here and pick our fruit and harvest our crops and tend our landscapes and roof our houses and clean our houses. For a very low price.

Mmmmm. Smells like freedom.

I think someone stole your idea.

 

[lane440]

Someone should come up with the idea of sending all prison inmates to central mexico and then send the lifetime welfare folks , or put them to work building the wall on the boarder and when the wall is done put em on the opposite side.

 

[vz. 61]

The MEXICANS want our DOLLARS, that is why they call us GRINGOS{GREEN GOLD} They are not going to stop coming to the USA, & obama isn't going to stop them or send them back

The MEXICANS want their employers DOLLARS and receive them for performing a service. The service is more valuable to the employer, and the DOLLARS are more valuable to the MEXICAN.

This is Capitalism, and it's not just Obama who's trying to obliterate it.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

that is why they call us GRINGOS{GREEN GOLD}

Sigh.... The short answer is "gringo" has to do with language, not money. the longer answer:

Gringo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Excerpted rom Wikipedia, but still correct:

The word is first attested in Terreros y Pando's Diccionario castellano con las voces de Ciencias y Artes y sus correspondientes en las 3 lenguas francesa, latina e italiana in 1786, which says:

gringos llaman en Málaga a los extranjeros que tienen cierta especie de acento, que los priva de una locución fácil y natural Castellana; y en Madrid dan el mismo nombre con particularidad a los irlandeses

'gringos' is what in Malaga they call foreigners who have any kind of accent which prevents them from speaking easy and natural Castillian; and in Madrid they give the same name in particular to the Irish[4]
​

Most scholars agree that gringo is a variant of griego 'Greek' (cf. Greek to me);[5][6][7][8][9] but it has also been argued that griego > gringo is phonetically unlikely (it requires two separate steps, griego > grigo, and after, grigo > gringo), and that it may instead come from the language of the Spanish Romani, Caló, as a variant of (pere)gringo 'wayfarer, stranger'.[6]
Its entry in a 1817 French-Spanish dictionary, written by Antonio de Capmany,[10] includes:

.. hablar en griego, en guirigay, en gringo.[11]

... to speak in Greek, in "guirigay", in "gringo". Gringo, griego: aplícase a lo que se dice o escribe sin entenderse.[12]

Gringo, Greek : applies to what is said or written without understanding it.

​

Johann Jakob von Tschudi observed that the term "gringo" was used in Lima, Peru in the 1840s:

Gringo is a nickname applied to Europeans. It is probably derived from Griego (Greek). The Germans say of anything incomprehensible, "That sounds like Spanish,"--and in like manner the Spaniards say of anything they do not understand, "That is Greek." [13]
​

 

[Garb]

How would I know if someone is an illegal alien? My point is if we are concerned about illegals coming across the Mexican border, we shouldn't go looking for blond haired, blue eyed Aryan types should we? Common sense and political correctness don't mix very well.

In todays thinking, if in 1942 there were several defense companies burning and a division of the Wehmacht was marching around the area we would not be able to detain them. That would not be politically correct. How DARE we assume it was them just because we are at war with them, and they have red armbands with swastika's on their left arms? The NERVE of some racist bigots! Someone get the ACLU on the line.......

It's called common sense, which we seem to ignore anymore.

You're right, that is profiling, but how do you tell the difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal one? At some point, their fourth amendment rights would have to be violated, unless of course they give consent to the unreasonable search and seizure that Arizona is advocating. Legal immigrants are undoubtedly going to have their rights violated under that bill, but hey, what do I know? I find the Constitution is the best source to consult for dilemmas like this, you should read it sometime.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Profiling works. Havent you ever watched the cop shows like criminal minds?

 

[firehawk1]

You're right, that is profiling, but how do you tell the difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal one? At some point, their fourth amendment rights would have to be violated, unless of course they give consent to the unreasonable search and seizure that Arizona is advocating. Legal immigrants are undoubtedly going to have their rights violated under that bill, but hey, what do I know? I find the Constitution is the best source to consult for dilemmas like this, you should read it sometime.

RIGHTS RIGHTS RIGHTS..... they are only HALF of the equation. What about RESPOSIBILITY? Where is the US government being responsible about securing the US border? We are being invaded for god's sake!!!

Question I have is, IF for instance someone is stopped in Arizona for a traffic violation and can't speak english WHY is it a "violation" of their "rights" to simply be asked about their status? If their legal, how has anyone been hurt? They simply go on their merry way. If I were in Mexico and stopped for the same reason, why would I care if they asked me if I were a Mexican citizen? How was I harmed?

We can't live in some utopian dream world here. You can't compare a simple question about someone's legal status, and being detained in a concentration camp. And that is EXACTLY how some want to portray this. We HAVE to get real here!

We all will end up being pushed into some mass grave and the Constitution shoved in your mouth before you're shot. But hey, you stood up for the Constitution didn't you? Blindly standing behind the Constitution while the country is over run is utter stupidity. It's about the same as believing the commandment "thou shall not kill" and while armed letting someone shoot you. It's insanity.

 

[Garb]

RIGHTS RIGHTS RIGHTS..... they are only HALF of the equation. What about RESPOSIBILITY? Where is the US government being responsible about securing the US border? We are being invaded for god's sake!!!

Question I have is, IF for instance someone is stopped in Arizona for a traffic violation and can't speak english WHY is it a "violation" of their "rights" to simply be asked about their status? If their legal, how has anyone been hurt? They simply go on their merry way. If I were in Mexico and stopped for the same reason, why would I care if they asked me if I were a Mexican citizen? How was I harmed?

We can't live in some utopian dream world here. You can't compare a simple question about someone's legal status, and being detained in a concentration camp. And that is EXACTLY how some want to portray this. We HAVE to get real here!

We all will end up being pushed into some mass grave and the Constitution shoved in your mouth before you're shot. But hey, you stood up for the Constitution didn't you? Blindly standing behind the Constitution while the country is over run is utter stupidity. It's about the same as believing the commandment "thou shall not kill" and while armed letting someone shoot you. It's insanity.

I agree, the Federal Government has screwed this situation up beyond belief, but that still doesn't nullify the Constitution. You say it's not a big deal if you get questioned about your citizenship because of your nationality, and that's fine, but that's your prerogative. Just because you're fine with it doesn't mean others will be. Aside from that, if you don't happen to have proof of citizenship (or a visa of some sort) on your person, then you can be detained under the new legislation in Arizona, even if you are a citizen. Do you really think you should be legally to carry your social security card or your birth certificate everywhere?

 

[firehawk1]

I agree, the Federal Government has screwed this situation up beyond belief, but that still doesn't nullify the Constitution. You say it's not a big deal if you get questioned about your citizenship because of your nationality, and that's fine, but that's your prerogative. Just because you're fine with it doesn't mean others will be. Aside from that, if you don't happen to have proof of citizenship (or a visa of some sort) on your person, then you can be detained under the new legislation in Arizona, even if you are a citizen. Do you really think you should be legally to carry your social security card or your birth certificate everywhere?

IF you are here under a visa, then YES you should be required to carry it ON YOUR PERSON at ALL times. IMO if you don't/refuse to, then you should be detained until you can prove who you are. If your driving a car then you would (I assume) have a drivers license. Most if not all states have a picture license, so that would be someway to identify you. We simply cannot have undocumented aliens roaming around the country. What's happening now is positive proof of that.

I just don't understand the mentality of "fearing" an LEO asking for SOMETHING that can identify who you are. What's next, not wanting an employer to know who you are? What is everyone afraid of? Besides unless your license plate is stolen, at a traffic stop they already know who you are, and a whole lot more already. Nothing new here... move along. I simply cannot understand the paranoia.

I guess if some are THAT concerned about slipping under the radar, they should move to a tar paper shack out in BFE somewhere. Expecting things to "go back" to the way they were 200 years ago is wishful thinking. It simply ISN'T going to happen, and IMO it's a waste of time and energy to think so. I tend to live in Reality World, not Dream World.

As you stated, this is only my

 

[INGunGuy]

I just don't understand the mentality of "fearing" an LEO asking for SOMETHING that can identify who you are. What's next, not wanting an employer to know who you are? What is everyone afraid of? Besides unless your license plate is stolen, at a traffic stop they already know who you are, and a whole lot more already. Nothing new here... move along. I simply cannot understand the paranoia.

I guess if some are THAT concerned about slipping under the radar, they should move to a tar paper shack out in BFE somewhere. Expecting things to "go back" to the way they were 200 years ago is wishful thinking. It simply ISN'T going to happen, and IMO it's a waste of time and energy to think so. I tend to live in Reality World, not Dream World.

As you stated, this is only my

You seem to forget that absent PC or RAS you have NO duty to notify LEO of who you are or even acknowledge his/her existence. If someone were walking down the street, and a LEO were to say to that person "good day" or whatever, that person can completely ignore that LEO without fear of being detained to "Ausweiss Bitte?" That went out with the Nazi's. If you are so willing to give up your civil liberties then that is fine, but and please dont take this as a personal insult because it is NOT intended to be, but it is people like you that make most LEO feel it is perfectly acceptable to "Ausweiss Bitte?" and they feel they should never be questioned. If people were to stand up for their rights our rights would soon stop being infringed upon.

INGunGuy

 

[firehawk1]

I have NEVER had an LEO ask for "my papers". I don't know anyone who has. Anyone on here have an LEO ask for "your papers"? Again what is fueling this paranoia?

It is what it is, and though many here complain about so called rights violations, NO ONE has offered a sensable solution to the problem. What is the solution? We HAVE to do SOMETHING, and it has to be founded in reality, NOT what we "wish" it was.

As far as following the Constitution, THAT isn't going to happen either. It is sad but true. The ruling class in Washington has proven that over and over again. We can all lament about how things should be, but that isn't going to change anything. I have asked before, WHAT has to be done to return to "the way things should be"? NO ONE has ever answered, but just keep complaining. IMO, the answer is NOTHING. The time for changing it back is LONG gone. We HAVE to deal in reality here. And the reality is we have millions of undocumented aliens over running the country and something should to be done to stop it.

Here's an example, from what I've read, and I don't remember where the birth rate of the French people is almost 0%. The Muslim birth rate is I believe 25%. That means there are not enough French people being born to replace the one's who die. Guess WHO is going to be running France in a few decades? It WON'T be the French. That is what could/can happen here if we lack the will to protect our own country from people who want to come here but have no desire to become American.

We can all "stand by the Constitution" until one day it is taken out of it's pretty display case and torn up in our faces. Then what? Will we all still feel good about ourselves for standing up for it after it sinks in we just "gave it all away"?

Again, my

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

America is better at cultural assimilation than most people recognize. At one point it was feared that the Irish and Germans were going to take over the United States due to the mass numbers immigrating here. It did not happen, because their children identified themselves as Americans. They grew up here, they went to school here, and they were patriotic members of the United States.....

That being said... the issue in the original post does not require immigration reform.

This is a symptom of issues caused by prohibition, not immigration.

Even if you rode a mach5 unicorn patrolling the southern border and were magically successful in stopping every single immigrant crossing that border...

Drugs would still make it into the country. Instead of it being a farmer on the southern border, if would be people in the north, or on the east coast...

This problem will not be solved with enforcement. We have successfully proven that enforcement escalation leads to more violence on both sides. People will line up to fight for the profit margins we create via prohibition.