So what carbine to start looking at?

[Tryin']

Mini-30, M-1 scout-squad, Marlin 336 in 30-30, bolt rifle in .308 cut down?

Looking for top notch reliability, 2 MOA, run filthy rifle to complete my defense collection.

Have 1911, 870, and need a medium caliber rifle. Looking to go more that 5.56 unless someone convinces me otherwise. The main thing is reliability with a maximum service life on parts. This criteria has kept me away from the AR family, convince me otherwise? Springfield is known (to me anyway) for being a true, drag through the mud battle rifle, is this true in your experience? They are kinda pricey. . .

Anyway, just some random thoughts. . . Your experience?

And please, EXPERIENCE, not "I hear. . . . My buddy says. . ." etc.

 

[jbombelli]

I asked myself similar questions a few years ago. I ended up with a Vector AK Underfolder. If your main thing is reliability, you can't really do better than an AK-47. It's still a 7.62, and you could buy several of them for the price of 1 M1A Scout/Squad. But you'd be hard-pressed to get 2 moa out of one without some custom work. Mine's good for 3, maybe 4 moa. Or at least that's what I'll shoot on a good day.

But ask yourself... are you good enough to off-hand snap-shoot a 2" group while on the move at 100 meters?

Now, if money was no object, I'd probably pick up the Scout/Squad. I like those. Plus, I already have an AK.


I've owned 3 Mini-14s, and sold all three because, back when I owned them, reliable mags were extremely hard to come by. Plus several other issues that made me just not like them. But I haven't owned a Mini-30. I'd rather own the AK. I had a couple Bushmaster ARs that I sold when I needed the money, but I kept the AK. I've never had a M1A. They're just too pricey for my taste in a gun I'm going to actually take out and beat on.

 

[sloughfoot]

It sounds like you are looking for a FR-8 Scout rifle in .308/7.62X51. Hmm, I wonder if there is one in the classifieds? I heard that maybe there is one.

 

[Tryin']

But ask yourself... are you good enough to off-hand snap-shoot a 2" group while on the move at 100 meters?

No, but I can shoot 130's on an AQT. 4 MOA is 16 or so inches at 400 yds (a LONG engagement, but. . . ) That's the possibility, or in my case the probability, of a complete miss.

 

[Tryin']

Sloughfoot, *goes to look in classifieds* Yeah, if I go with a bolt-type rifle, that's pretty much what I would be looking for. . . Nice

 

[jbombelli]

No, but I can shoot 130's on an AQT. 4 MOA is 16 or so inches at 400 yds (a LONG engagement, but. . . ) That's the possibility, or in my case the probability, of a complete miss.

Mine, too. But looking around where I live and work, it's pretty unlikely I would be firing on others at that kind of range. There aren't very many open fields like that around here. When I look around, most places I go, 200 meters seems to be about the farthest shot I would reasonably expect to have to make. Besides, with a 75-round drum you get LOTS more chances!

So I'm pretty happy with the AK.

 

[Tryin']

Mine, too. But looking around where I live and work, it's pretty unlikely I would be firing on others at that kind of range. There aren't very many open fields like that around here. When I look around, most places I go, 200 meters seems to be about the farthest shot I would reasonably expect to have to make. Besides, with a 75-round drum you get LOTS more chances!

So I'm pretty happy with the AK.

10/4 on the drum!

I have not even really looked at the AKs, I'll have to do some more checking. . .

Also, do you have any experience with the penetration of the 7.62x39 round? Glass, engine blocks, etc?

Hard targets are why I am staying away from the 5.56

 

[jbombelli]

10/4 on the drum!

I have not even really looked at the AKs, I'll have to do some more checking. . .

Also, do you have any experience with the penetration of the 7.62x39 round? Glass, engine blocks, etc?

Hard targets are why I am staying away from the 5.56

No, just wood and paper myself. But I've seen video online in the past where it was shown the 7.62x39 mm round has much better penetration against hard targets than the 5.56mm. Cinderblock walls, adobe walls, brick, things like that seemed to not provide a lot of protection. I seem to recall those providing cover vs. the 5.56, not not so much vs. the 7.62x39.

 

[Duce]

Guess I just love to face the wind and spit. Go find the roughest Marlin 30/30 you can find with a good bore and works. Have it cut down to 16.5" will still hold 6 rounds, Make sure everything is in good working order. Buy as much Win. silver box at Miejer, as you want, for about $13 a box. Use whatever sights you want, refinish, or not. These things are tanks, ammo is everywhere, even during BO's run for office it didn't raise. I did this with a $165 dollar internet wonder and found about the handiest rifle I own. That doesn't raise any eyebrows when it's slung across my back running down the road on my ATV.........Let the old slow and weak's fly..........Duce<><

 

[Tryin']

Duce, yeah I read an article in SWAT magazine where they took an old Glenfield and cut it down and refinished it. They also put an Aimpoint Micro on it. Really piqued my interest! Seems like it would be handier than the bolt and definitely more so than the springfield, but giving up mag cap to the springer

 

[IndyMonkey]

We were shooting through 3/8" steel with reg ak ammo this weekend. Its an even nastier round with AP ammo.

 

[dudish]

Looking for top notch reliability, 2 MOA, run filthy rifle to complete my defense collection.

And please, EXPERIENCE, not "I hear. . . . My buddy says. . ." etc.

If you want reliability and accuracy, then how can you ignore an AR. We carry this family of weapons into combat for the last 40 some years for a reason. I never wanted one until I considered it my significant other for a couple months. There are great battle rifles out there, M1A, FALs ect. But the AR has such an aftermarket following, and relatively "affordable" ammo, that you can do anything you want to customize. not to mention calibers from .22 -50 bmg.

Not trying to make a sale, but dont burry your head in the sand to this awesome weapon.

 

[Duce]

Tryin'
Nothing beats familiarity, knowledge of your weapon through having in or at hand at all times. Having something that you can afford to shoot at least weekly.
Guess I'm old school in that I think to much is put on capacity, putting rounds on target is what counts.
I've been lucky in that working on guns meant I've shot more types of firearms than I can remember. What became clear to me a while back was that I plain enjoy shooting my leverguns.
My best advice is beg,borrow, or rent any rifle/carbine you are interested in and shoot it. Try to carry for a day or at least a good long walk, remember a gun is only useful if it's with you. With any luck you'll find something that fits you and your needs. Don't let the winds of popularity sway you, find WHAT FITS YOU. Then shoot it until you wear it out then buy another just like it. Good luck on your search and have fun.... ...Duce<><

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Marlin does make top notch lever action rifles. Had one in a 30-30, but sold it because I could not afford to shoot it. My vote would also go with the AK. You can get an accurate AK for cheaper then a Springfield, or an AR. AK's are known for taking anything, and still firing. Not to mention the ammo is cheaper. That would be the first gun I would go to if SHTF. Of course I do not have a lot of funds, so it's something I can afford. Me personally, I would not engage targets past 150-200 yards with a semi auto rifle. That's where I would grab a bolt action. That's just me though.

 

[Tryin']

Well, I'm down to an AK or 30-30 levergun. . . Dudish, I have owned an AR; no sand in my hair there. It just isn't what I'm looking for, at least my experience with them. I am leaning toward the 30-30 vs the AK for lack of attention gathering and ammo is available EVERYwhere. Will still be looking at the AKs though! I've got some time before I get one.

 

[Duce]

Meet Stumpy, After I took this I changed to a longer mag tube to bring capacity up to 6.... .......Duce<><

 

[JeremySS]

Well, I'm down to an AK or 30-30 levergun. . . Dudish, I have owned an AR; no sand in my hair there. It just isn't what I'm looking for, at least my experience with them. I am leaning toward the 30-30 vs the AK for lack of attention gathering and ammo is available EVERYwhere. Will still be looking at the AKs though! I've got some time before I get one.

Have you considered a FAL? DSArms makes some very nice ones that seem to fit what you are wanting.

-D S Arms

 

[mammynun]

You might like a Marlin Guide Gun.... the .45-70 can be loaded from "mild to wild" for your shooting pleasure!

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Mini-30, M-1 scout-squad, Marlin 336 in 30-30, bolt rifle in .308 cut down?

Looking for top notch reliability, 2 MOA, run filthy rifle to complete my defense collection.

Have 1911, 870, and need a medium caliber rifle. Looking to go more that 5.56 unless someone convinces me otherwise. The main thing is reliability with a maximum service life on parts. This criteria has kept me away from the AR family, convince me otherwise? Springfield is known (to me anyway) for being a true, drag through the mud battle rifle, is this true in your experience? They are kinda pricey. . .

Anyway, just some random thoughts. . . Your experience?

And please, EXPERIENCE, not "I hear. . . . My buddy says. . ." etc.

Look at an AR15 chambered in 7.62x39. You get the best of both worlds. Accurate weapon, good penetration. Put a gas piston kit on it and it becomes every bit as reliable as an AK.

My 7.62x39 AR is about MOA. My AK is MOPP (I can hit a pie plate 8 - 10 times at 100 years, and the broad side of a barn at 300). Furthest I've shot it is about 300 yards, which approached the maximum effective range of the round.

 

[451_Detonics]

Well...seeing as you don't want an AR for whatever reason, I would suggest an FN FAL as well. It will run far past the point where an M1A1 will pack it in (a current semi from Springfield is not the same gun the M14 was) and has more punch and accuracy than an AK. Very easy to field strip for cleaning in the field, inexpensive magazines, ultra reliable. It is probably the best of the .308 MBRs. It is available in a multitude of configurations from folding carbines to heavy barrel rifles and spare parts are easy to find to build up an armorers kit. As was already said, buy a DSA, stay away from the Century junk and you will have a rifle your great grandkids will be able to shoot.

Mine was built by Ohio Rapid Fire about 5 years ago using DSA parts.