*sigh* Sure, let's let illegals in the military to "meet recruiting goals"

[BehindBlueI's]

House nixes bid to bar illegal immigrants from military

WASHINGTON — The Republican-led House on Thursday narrowly defeated an attempt to bar young immigrants living in the country illegally to enlist in the armed forces, as opponents tied the measure to Donald Trump's presidential campaign.Lawmakers voted 211-210 to reject an amendment by Rep. Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., to the annual defense spending bill. He said he wanted to close what he called a "backdoor amnesty program" created by President Barack Obama without approval from Congress.
But Rep. Ruben Gallego, D-Ariz., linked Gosar's amendment to Trump's characterizations of immigrants and the candidate's proposals to deport those illegally in the United States. Trump also wants to build a wall along the Mexican border.

The Pentagon announced nearly two years ago that DACA beneficiaries would be allowed to enlist in a trial program that had been open only to legal immigrants who had unique language, medical and cultural skills.

Are you effing serious?

 

[phylodog]

I thought we did that years ago, basically, if you want citizenship you're gonna have to prove it and work for it.

My initial thought is that it doesn't seem like a bad idea. No one is stopping them from coming in, why not allow them to be productive citizens? Curious why you're against it, it's quite possible I'm missing the obvious.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I thought we did that years ago, basically, if you want citizenship you're gonna have to prove it and work for it.

My initial thought is that it doesn't seem like a bad idea. No one is stopping them from coming in, why not allow them to be productive citizens? Curious why you're against it, it's quite possible I'm missing the obvious.

My question would be to whom does their allegiance belong. The U.S., or their home country?

 

[Twangbanger]

I thought we did that years ago, basically, if you want citizenship you're gonna have to prove it and work for it.

My initial thought is that it doesn't seem like a bad idea. No one is stopping them from coming in, why not allow them to be productive citizens? Curious why you're against it, it's quite possible I'm missing the obvious.

Soldier seems like an important job, one provided for in the Constitution. Although some good people could no doubt be found through this channel, I don't like the idea of our Military being purposed as a social engineering program for allowing mostly sub-par recruits to earn their citizenship merit badges.

And besides, I've always seen the "let illegals grunt their way to citizenship" position as being an attempt to wrap the trappings of patriotism around what is, basically, a soft-on-immigration position. Ie, trying to find the least-objectionable way to justify letting even more people in.

 

[Jludo]

My question would be to whom does their allegiance belong. The U.S., or their home country?

So your concern is illegal immigrants from Iraq getting here, going through basic training, then when they're deployed declaring their allegiance to isis and going on a shooting spree?

 

[foszoe]

Wasn't Roman Citizenship granted to mercenaries who fought for Rome?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I thought we did that years ago, basically, if you want citizenship you're gonna have to prove it and work for it.

My initial thought is that it doesn't seem like a bad idea. No one is stopping them from coming in, why not allow them to be productive citizens? Curious why you're against it, it's quite possible I'm missing the obvious.

I'm with you...

 

[Kutnupe14]

Wasn't Roman Citizenship granted to mercenaries who fought for Rome?

Not sure, but being Roman, (as in born within the empire) didn't make you a citizen.... fighting in the Roman army did.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Soldier seems like an important job, one provided for in the Constitution. Although some good people could no doubt be found through this channel, I don't like the idea of our Military being purposed as a social engineering program for allowing mostly sub-par recruits to earn their citizenship merit badges.

And besides, I've always seen the "let illegals grunt their way to citizenship" position as being an attempt to wrap the trappings of patriotism around what is, basically, a soft-on-immigration position. Ie, trying to find the least-objectionable way to justify letting even more people in.

Whats a "sub par recruit?"

 

[OakRiver]

How does the French Foreign Legion do it?

 

[Sylvain]

I thought we did that years ago, basically, if you want citizenship you're gonna have to prove it and work for it.

My initial thought is that it doesn't seem like a bad idea. No one is stopping them from coming in, why not allow them to be productive citizens? Curious why you're against it, it's quite possible I'm missing the obvious.

France had the same thing for years with the French Foreign Legion.
No need for any papers to join, get a new name and identify and become a French citizen after 5 years of service.

It's probably the toughest way to become a citizen though.

It makes for an elite fighting force too, usually with veterans from pretty much any armies in the world who bring their foreign tactics and skills to the team.

 

[Kutnupe14]

France had the same thing for years with the French Foreign Legion.
No need for any papers to join, get a new name and identify and become a French citizen after 5 years of service.

It's probably the toughest way to become a citizen though.

It makes for an elite fighting force too, usually with veterans from pretty much any armies in the world who bring their foreign tactics and skills to the team.

I think the cut off is 40. Seems pretty bad ass that the organization still exists. I'd totally try it, if it wasn't for the allegiance thing.

 

[Leadeye]

The Lodge Act after WW2 produced some outstanding soldiers like the late Great Larry Thorne. He was originally from Finland.

 

[Sylvain]

I think the cut off is 40. Seems pretty bad ass that the organization still exists. I'd totally try it, if it wasn't for the allegiance thing.

The allegiance is to the Legion itself first and foremost so it's not imcompatible to any former oath you might have taken.
You don't have to become a French citizen either, many people in the legion only take the offer once they retire.
It's just like entering a second family and some people just try it for a few years as a challenge.
You don't have to lose your US citizenship either and can enlist using your real name and nationality.

Most of them enlist just for the action, not to get away from their country and what it stands for.

 

[phylodog]

Soldier seems like an important job, one provided for in the Constitution. Although some good people could no doubt be found through this channel, I don't like the idea of our Military being purposed as a social engineering program for allowing mostly sub-par recruits to earn their citizenship merit badges.

And besides, I've always seen the "let illegals grunt their way to citizenship" position as being an attempt to wrap the trappings of patriotism around what is, basically, a soft-on-immigration position. Ie, trying to find the least-objectionable way to justify letting even more people in.

I don't have a problem letting people in provided it is done correctly. I'd like to see the entitlement programs which lure many to this country cut off to stem the flow of those coming here for the wrong reasons.

That said, I served for 6 years in the Army and one of the better friends I made was of Mexican descent, born and raised in El Paso, TX. At least half of his family still lived in Mexico and the only difference between him and his cousins was where they were born. He was a fine soldier and I see no reason why his cousins wouldn't have as well. Good family, good upbringing, english as a second language every one of them and the only difference was being born a few miles on either side of a border.

We also have a significant number of officers on IMPD who have migrated to this country. I can think of more than a few who work their butt's off and do an excellent job. I don't see where there would be much of a difference with this type of a program. Enlisting in the military is a pretty significant commitment, I'd be inclined to think any foreigner willing to commit to that would have some pretty honest intentions and I have no problem with immigrants willing to earn their citizenship.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I thought we did that years ago, basically, if you want citizenship you're gonna have to prove it and work for it.

My initial thought is that it doesn't seem like a bad idea. No one is stopping them from coming in, why not allow them to be productive citizens? Curious why you're against it, it's quite possible I'm missing the obvious.

The "illegal" part, mostly. More rewarding people for breaking the law and a backdoor to citizenship for cheaters in the guise of military readiness.

I've no problem with legal migrants or even foreign contractors who prove themselves. I do have a problem with rewarding criminal activity and the lie being used to do it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just out of curiosity, is the military honestly having issues meeting recruitment goals. Last I knew, they lowered enlistment maximum age due to having so many people apply. Has that trend reversed?

Kut (doesn't know)

 

[Kutnupe14]

The "illegal" part, mostly. More rewarding people for breaking the law and a backdoor to citizenship for cheaters in the guise of military readiness.

I've no problem with legal migrants or even foreign contractors who prove themselves. I do have a problem with rewarding criminal activity and the lie being used to do it.

From my understanding, this only applies to illegals who were brought here as young children (and thus didn't really have a choice). They also must have graduated from an American HS.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Just out of curiosity, is the military honestly having issues meeting recruitment goals. Last I knew, they lowered enlistment maximum age due to having so many people apply. Has that trend reversed?

Kut (doesn't know)

Another example of jobs Americans just won't do anymore, all of a sudden?

 

[phylodog]

The "illegal" part, mostly. More rewarding people for breaking the law and a backdoor to citizenship for cheaters in the guise of military readiness.

I've no problem with legal migrants or even foreign contractors who prove themselves. I do have a problem with rewarding criminal activity and the lie being used to do it.

Gotcha, not much to disagree with there. I hadn't read enough about the plan.