School property - where does it end?

[Rookie]

My family and I have been walking quite a bit lately, and I'm wanting some opinions on an issue that I have.

Any route we take pretty much forces us to walk by a school. Is the sidewalk considered school property? Or is is public access?

 

[citizenvain]

This is from the "Indiana Handgun Law - Second Edition" by Bryan Ciyou, esq,

pg. 290,

School Property Defined (Indiana Statute). "'School property' means the following ...

(2) The ground adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure descibed in subdision.

That would seem to me, if I'm reading that right, you would just need to know which land the school actually owned. So it may end at the sidewalk, but I'm thinking you would have to be on the other side of the street to be safe.

But to be honest, I'm not sure if I'm reading that right , but I didn't want to put the whole paragraph. I would recommend getting the book as I have, I'm trying to make my way through it, and even the way the attorney tried to write more in laymen terms, I'm still struggling.

 

[postmanpwc]

The laws are funny when it comes to schools. Apparently you can have a gun concealed in your vehicle while dropping your children off at school. So basically you can pull right up to the front entrance with your concealed gun and let your children have a closer walk to the doors.

I also saw a video of a news reporter across the the street from a school and reporting to us that he was legally able to be there with his gun because he was on public property but yet the administrators of the school saw it and called the cops.

Long story short...the cops told him to leave or they would arrest him. But I forgot what the news reporter was trying to do in his story.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So basically you can pull right up to the front entrance with your concealed gun and let your children have a closer walk to the doors.

Why must it be concealed?

Kirk's First Law?

 

[emclean]

Why must it be concealed?

cause you wouldn't want to scare teh sheep into a stampede, where your child might get trampled.

 

[citizenvain]

Why must it be concealed?

Kirk's First Law?

My guess is that such a display of patriotism would disrupt most school's socialist agenda to brain wash our children. Just my guess though.

 

[kludge]

I also saw a video of a news reporter across the the street from a school and reporting to us that he was legally able to be there with his gun because he was on public property but yet the administrators of the school saw it and called the cops.

I remember that, but I think that was in Ohio.

 

[Rookie]

Six replies, and only two closely resembles answering the question?

Is a sidewalk, by the street, public property or is it school property?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following: (i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

Indiana Code 35-41-1-24.7.

 

[dburkhead]

Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following: (i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

Indiana Code 35-41-1-24.7.

Yes, that's the code. Now, is a sidewalk next to the street part of that "The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1)" or is it public property?

Here's another one: It says "the grounds adjacent to and..." So take the situation where a school corporation owns a parcel of land separate from any school buildings. Carry legal or illegal on that parcel of land? (Not that I would carry there--I have no interest in being a test case.)

 

[Annie Oakley]

I believe that the sidewalk, if it continues on down the street and the street itself would not be school property. If the gun is concealed I can't imagine that you would have a problem. Even if you were OCing after school is out and the building is closed it seems that you would be ok. I will try to do some checking to get some real clarification on this.

 

[kludge]

Six replies, and only two closely resembles answering the question?

Is a sidewalk, by the street, public property or is it school property?

The reason you didn't get a straight yes/no answer is this that it comes down to the fact that when people write these laws they really don't think it through, like we have to, and they do a p*$$ poor job of defining things.

Nobody knows. And there is no case law to help us out.

If I tell you the sidewalk is not school property and you go to jail for a felony and lose your gun rights forever because of advise you got on the internet, well...

Read the law carefully... there's nothing that says you are only guiltly for "KNOWINGLY" being on school property with a gun.

If you didn't know, you're still guilty, and you're still hosed.

 

[rhino]

This is yet another reason why the law that nullifies our License to Carry Handgun on school grounds and other gov't property should stricken and it should be our #1 legislative priority.

 

[minuteman32]

Good luck getting a definitive answer for this! I have spent years asking the same question w/ no clear answer. My actual question was something like, “You are driving down the street with a gun in your vehicle. You pass a school on your right (same side of the road you are travelling on). Are you committing a felony, per IN law regarding guns on school grounds? I have asked legislators, prosecutors, police officers, lawyers, etc. I finally just went through the process to become a reserve officer so I won’t have to worry about it for myself. I still lobby my legislators to correct the law, making it legal to have a gun on school grounds, like the law in IN, pre 1994.

 

[minuteman32]

This is yet another reason why the law that nullifies our License to Carry Handgun on school grounds and other gov't property should stricken and it should be our #1 legislative priority.

I agree 100%!!!!

 

[Marc]

i talked to local law enforcement in my home town and they said you cant have ANY firearm with 1000ft of school property. they arrested a man for owning a shotgun and was living with in the 1000ft range. the way that he got caught was that he was selling drugs and then they hit him with having a gun within 1000ft of school property. but you can go up to a college and if there is a state payed road you can carry as long as you are passing through and you wont get charged if the leo finds it in your car. why do they insit on making things so dang difficult and confusing.

 

[minuteman32]

You can carry on college property & it's not illegal (just against their rules). You can carry within 1000' of a school (in IN) and it's not illegal, if you have an LTC. The 1000' law is federal and it makes provisions for individuals with a permit issued in the state that the school is located. In fact, if state law allows, you can carry INTO the school (ex.: Utah). The drug dealer was selling drugs w/ in 1000' of a school, which brings an enhanced penalty, and that is probably also how they got him for having a gun, too, since he didn't possess it legally to begin with.

 

[dburkhead]

i talked to local law enforcement in my home town and they said you cant have ANY firearm with 1000ft of school property. they arrested a man for owning a shotgun and was living with in the 1000ft range. the way that he got caught was that he was selling drugs and then they hit him with having a gun within 1000ft of school property. but you can go up to a college and if there is a state payed road you can carry as long as you are passing through and you wont get charged if the leo finds it in your car. why do they insit on making things so dang difficult and confusing.

That turns out not to be the case.

The 1000 foot rule is from a Federal law that has a number of exceptions including private property not part of the school, locked and unloaded in a vehicle, or by someone who has a license from his or her state to carry firearms.

Neither the federal "gun free school zone" law nor Indiana's school statute include colleges.

Yes, it is difficult and confusing and the amount of misinformation out there certainly adds to that.

 

[Annie Oakley]

According to my husband, who is never wrong......The school property extends to the middle of the roadway in front of it. That makes the sidewalk off limits as well as that part of the street. Cross the street to be safe and don't OC if you are going to be near a school. It will save you some hassle should someone get panicked.

 

[jedi]

Hi all,

What is the name of the book written by the atty in Indianapolis that talks about all these 'wonderful' gun laws in Indiana again? I wrote it down but can't remember it. It was 2 books right?

Thanks