Saw my first complete composite AR-15 lower today

[Michiana]

Anyone hear of the the Plum Crazy CR15 receiver? I have one in for a transfer and it is 99% composite, even the trigger group. Looks like a toy but I assume they work. Check them out at the link below. I read that they list for $120 for a complete lower with a 6-position stock. Sounds too good to be true. Anyone shoot one of these?

This is the info on them;
Made in the USA, a complete lower receiver ready to go. Other rifles such as the new Bushmaster ACR also use this composite technology, the lower has an aluminum buffer tube (Commercial). It also has a high velocity composite trigger mechanism and come with a lifetime warranty from manufacturing defects. These lowers are the best value bar none on the market today. We have tried these lowers on a wide range of uppers and they perform great.


http://www.plumcrazyfirearms.com/index2.html

 

[VUPDblue]

I've been looking at these for a while now. Only time will tell how well they hold up. The Carbon15 series of lowers from Bushmaster didn't exactly have a stellar reputation, neither did the uppers for that matter. Again, only time will tell...

 

[theweakerbrother]

Cav Arms, also a sort of sore subject on the board are made from similar materials. Although, I think only the lower is polymer and not the trigger group itself. One of the (incorrect) urban legends about Mattel is that they made AR-15s. But if they did, it would seem like it might be one of these lowers.

 

[melensdad]

I've gotten some good reports about the Plum Crazy lowers. Some of the guys at the OA2 website are testing/shooting them and the results, so far are positive.

Cav Arms, also a sort of sore subject on the board are made from similar materials. Although, I think only the lower is polymer and not the trigger group itself.

I've got several of the Cav Arms full poly lowers, no they do not have the plastic fire control parts. They also are made of a different polymer composite than the Plum Crazy lowers.




.

 

[JeremySS]

I have been really happy with the new design Carbon 15 setup. The advantages of polymers on pistols seems to be now mostly settled, not sure why it has not taken off more with the AR platform. So long as it a good design with quality materials, polymer works well.

 

[Michiana]

Much higher quality than the Cav Arms lowers

I've gotten some good reports about the Plum Crazy lowers. Some of the guys at the OA2 website are testing/shooting them and the results, so far are positive.

I've got several of the Cav Arms full poly lowers, no they do not have the plastic fire control parts. They also are made of a different polymer composite than the Plum Crazy lowers. .

I've seen several Cav Arms lowers and they looked like junk compared to the quality of these molded parts. These are molded from good tooling and look similar fit/finish to a Glock, S&W 15-22 or other poly molded guns. I have no idea how the moving parts will hold up over time but the exterior looks great. I just got finished reading some very positive reviews myself.

 

[JeremySS]

Just checked the link, do they have a forward assist? I honestly do not care as the need for it is highly debateable, I am just curious as to how similar this is to my Carbon 15 which does have it.

 

[subtlesixer03]

at the very least it looks like a great 22 ar build or a 9mm build lower.

 

[451_Detonics]

I don't think my Cav Arms looks like "junk", I think it is a very well made piece of gear that has already proven itself in several competitions. It has had zero problems, parts are standard AR parts...a big plus, all the parts in the lower dropped straight in just as they would with any high quality lower.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Just checked the link, do they have a forward assist? I honestly do not care as the need for it is highly debateable, I am just curious as to how similar this is to my Carbon 15 which does have it.

Put that smiley up there for ya.

Forward assists are on the uppers, not lowers.

 

[JeremySS]

Put that smiley up there for ya.

Forward assists are on the uppers, not lowers.

It is definitely time for me to step away from the keyboard and go to bed

 

[indykid]

I have one of the early Carbon 15s. After dealing with the factory people back then, and at least with me I got great service and great responses to my questions, a lot of the problem was lubrication, which seems common among AR15s. The problem with the Carbon 15 was and is that the carbon fiber material is self lubricating and some lubes could hurt it. It was really hard putting it back together after a cleaning and making sure it was dry!

In fact, the chromed bolt group is so slippery that with a little oil on my hands I had trouble picking it up!

As to longevity, I have put several thousand rounds through mine and have not experienced any problems.

 

[melensdad]

I've seen several Cav Arms lowers and they looked like junk compared to the quality of these molded parts.

Coming from you I suppose I should go try to buy up the remaining inventory of Cavalry Arms

Cav Arms stuff is pretty non-traditional, its not a mil-spec piece, but it works with mil-spec parts. They are used in rifle and 3 gun competitions regularly and are very popular with some competitors in some areas of the nation.

You may not like them, but for folks who have handled them, shot them and competed with them they are good to go and its pretty hard to build a lighter weight AR15 by using parts other than a Cav Arms lower as the basis for the build. I've got one AR15, with optic, that tips the scale at about 4#. Easiest handling AR that I've ever used and others who've shot it generally agree.

Plum Crazy seems to be good, as I said. I only brought up the comparison to Cav Arms to explain they are made of different material and only in response to another poster who mentioned them first.

I don't think my Cav Arms looks like "junk", I think it is a very well made piece of gear that has already proven itself in several competitions. It has had zero problems, parts are standard AR parts...a big plus, all the parts in the lower dropped straight in just as they would with any high quality lower.

Oh, now I'm really confused. I don't know if I should believe my own experiences since they match your experiences, or if I should heed the "junk" warning from Richard and send my Cav Arms guns to the plastic recycling center for scrap. Wouldn't want any of these "junk" guns hurting anyone.

As with anything, shooting the gun is the proof that I need. While I've not yet shot any of the Plum Crazy lowers I do think they have a lot of promise based on all the reviews I've seen and based on the word of some of the guys I trust who have them. Same can be said about a bunch of other brands . . . including Cavalry Arms.

 

[Michiana]

Expected response

I am not judging either product on function, just cosmetics and in my opinion there is no comparison between the two when it comes to appearance. Go back and read my post; “looked like” refers to appearance, not function. My thread was about the Plum Crazy lowers, others brought the Cav Arms lowers into the discussion.
I have over thirty years in the “plastics” industry both in manufacturing and mold building and related tooling so I believe I am knowledgeable and have an eye for what looks professional in a molded part. If a person likes Cav Arms lowers buy a safe full, I couldn't care less.

Coming from you I suppose I should go try to buy up the remaining inventory of Cavalry Arms

Cav Arms stuff is pretty non-traditional, its not a mil-spec piece, but it works with mil-spec parts. They are used in rifle and 3 gun competitions regularly and are very popular with some competitors in some areas of the nation.

You may not like them, but for folks who have handled them, shot them and competed with them they are good to go and its pretty hard to build a lighter weight AR15 by using parts other than a Cav Arms lower as the basis for the build. I've got one AR15, with optic, that tips the scale at about 4#. Easiest handling AR that I've ever used and others who've shot it generally agree.

Plum Crazy seems to be good, as I said. I only brought up the comparison to Cav Arms to explain they are made of different material and only in response to another poster who mentioned them first.

Oh, now I'm really confused. I don't know if I should believe my own experiences since they match your experiences, or if I should heed the "junk" warning from Richard and send my Cav Arms guns to the plastic recycling center for scrap. Wouldn't want any of these "junk" guns hurting anyone.

As with anything, shooting the gun is the proof that I need. While I've not yet shot any of the Plum Crazy lowers I do think they have a lot of promise based on all the reviews I've seen and based on the word of some of the guys I trust who have them. Same can be said about a bunch of other brands . . . including Cavalry Arms.

 

[451_Detonics]

I am not judging either product on function, just cosmetics and in my opinion there is no comparison between the two when it comes to appearance. Go back and read my post; “looked like” refers to appearance, not function.

Tell a guy his wife looks like a whore and you tend to get a non-positive reaction......same thing here.... Also you didn't state originally you meant just the physical appearance, when I say I think something looks like junk it means I think it is junk unless I add something to the statement like..."that sure looks like junk but works great".

My main concern would be in the new molded lower in the OP wouldn't take standard AR parts, if it won't I wouldn't want to own. That is one of the great draws of the AR platform, parts interchangeability.

 

[Michiana]

More information on this lower

Tell a guy his wife looks like a whore and you tend to get a non-positive reaction......same thing here.... Also you didn't state originally you meant just the physical appearance, when I say I think something looks like junk it means I think it is junk unless I add something to the statement like..."that sure looks like junk but works great".

My main concern would be in the new molded lower in the OP wouldn't take standard AR parts, if it won't I wouldn't want to own. That is one of the great draws of the AR platform, parts interchangeability.

I truly believe some of you guys would argue which way is up. Quit nitpicking every little word; I know what I said and what I meant. I never saw a Cav Arms lower on a assembled gun, and never in action so I can't comment on how it works with the rest of the package. Trying to compare these two products as far as mechanics is like trying to compare a garage to an car; one is a shell and the other is a complete product. I have seen several of the Cav Arms lowers during transfers and the surface finish, in my professional opinion sucks. Clear enough this time?


As for the Plum Crazy lower I saw my first this weekend, again during a transfer for a customer and he said that he did a lot of research before purchasing this lower and felt for the money they wanted it was worth the gamble. They state on their web site that you cannot interchange parts from other manufacturers with those in this gun. If that is an issue you don't buy a gun like this. I just sold a Rock River complete lower for $299 and this one would sell for $119 so there is a HUGE difference in price. I wrote the manufacturer concerning people questioning the durability of the working parts and here is what I just received in an email.

"As far as the field testing - we have a version of our fire control on an automated system that has exceeded 1.5 million cycles with NO VISUAL WEAR! Our fire control system is self-lubricating, 100 % of the time, unlike steel which only self lubricates when it hits a certain temperature that enables it to leach the sulfur from the steel. Because we're self lubricating, and a liquid form of lubricant is not needed, it is less susceptible to dirt, dust, and debri adhering to the trigger system. It's designed to be used as a whole, not as individual fire control pieces to be mixed and matched with other fire control pieces on the market. It's designed to work as one system. It also has a 4.5 pound trigger pull, 0 creep, and an extremely crisp let-off. It is also an ultra-low mass system, so lock up times are comparable to high end target grade systems. If you have any additional questions, I'm sure Russ Maxwell, co-founder, can answer them for you."


Maybe the above is all BS, who knows,; someone has to try one over time to get at the facts. I started this thread as an informational tool on a very interesting product; not a vehicle to throw mud at Michiana.

 

[VUPDblue]

I think you may be being a tad bit sensitive...

 

[mvician]

I think you may be being a tad bit sensitive...

ya think?

 

[Michiana]

Thought of you when I saw this

Cav Arms, also a sort of sore subject on the board are made from similar materials. Although, I think only the lower is polymer and not the trigger group itself. One of the (incorrect) urban legends about Mattel is that they made AR-15s. But if they did, it would seem like it might be one of these lowers.

Just got this in and it had your name written all over it.