S&W w no swartz safety

[sam1]

just bought a 1911 S&W w/o swartz safety,dealer said 1st one they've had in looks like my other S&W's 1911 but no internal lever

 

[MilitaryArms]

Nice. Talk about an utterly useless device.

Good on S&W for ditching it. Is this something they're going to do with all of their 1911's?

 

[kludge]

So... what did S&W do instead to make it drop safe?

 

[Gpfury86]

So... what did S&W do instead to make it drop safe?

Probably nothing, maybe they just figured the probablity somebody was gonna drop it 20 feet onto a hard surface straight on the hammer causing discharge is fairly low.....

 

[printcraft]

Probably nothing, maybe they just figured the probablity somebody was gonna drop it 20 feet onto a hard surface straight on the hammer causing discharge is fairly low.....

Murphy's Law is just begging to make this statement it's beotch.

 

[kludge]

The probability of some kid getting loaded revolver is low too, but they still put locks on them. And then tell the owners not to load them and lock them. The 1911 carried loaded, cocked and locked. The risk of dropping it is higher than a kid shooting himself with an unloaded and locked revolver. Something doesn't add up. Customer complaints > fear of laibility? I hear Smith is making no lock revolvers again, so maybe.

I'm not 1911 fan, so this is a genuine question not a troll...

AFAIK the 1911 has a floating firing pin, and the hammer has little to do with the gun being drop safe, hence the "swartz" safety???

 

[OD*]

So... what did S&W do instead to make it drop safe?

Titanium firing pin, and extra poundage FP spring.

 

[OD*]

just bought a 1911 S&W w/o swartz safety,dealer said 1st one they've had in looks like my other S&W's 1911 but no internal lever

S&W doesn't use the Colt/Swartz firing pin block, the only similarity between the S&W firing pin block and the Colt/Swartz FP block is, they are both deactivated by depressing the grip safety.

 

[96firephoenix]

snip
I'm not 1911 fan
snip

gtfo

but I am curious as to whether other brands are dropping this element or not.
I"m kind of a noob, but I'm eager to learn... so if this is something unique to the S&W 1911, dont be too harsh.

 

[OD*]

gtfo

but I am curious as to whether other brands are dropping this element or not.
I"m kind of a noob, but I'm eager to learn... so if this is something unique to the S&W 1911, dont be too harsh.

They have one model 1911 without the firing pin safety, they're not dropping it per se.

 

[gglass]

gtfo

but I am curious as to whether other brands are dropping this element or not.
I"m kind of a noob, but I'm eager to learn... so if this is something unique to the S&W 1911, dont be too harsh.

The titanium firing pin and extra strength firing pin spring was pioneered by Springfield Armory years ago... It has just taken all these years for S&W to copy a great concept.

Springfield Armory's titanium firing pin design is so good that it even passed California's drop safety test. With such a simple, back-to-basics design, I have often wondered why other manufacturers haven't followed suit.

 

[WIZZO499]

S&W doesn't use the Colt/Swartz firing pin block, the only similarity between the S&W firing pin block and the Colt/Swartz FP block is, they are both deactivated by depressing the grip safety.

Colt's Series 80 system is deactivated by pressing the trigger, not the grip safety.

Orignally Posted ByGpfury86:
Probably nothing, maybe they just figured the probablity somebody was gonna drop it 20 feet onto a hard surface straight on the hammer causing discharge is fairly low.....

The "Danger" of dripping a 1911 isn't hitting the hammer, it's dropping it on the muzzle and causing the firing pin to fly forward and strike the primer of the round in the chamber. That's what these "firing pin safeties" are meant to solve. Springfield has a much better way of doing it with a titanium .38 Super firing pin and a slightly heavier firing pin spring.

 

[OD*]

Colt's Series 80 system is deactivated by pressing the trigger, not the grip safety.

I'm well aware of that fact, that's why I said Colt/Swartz and not Series 80, two completely different firing pin safeties.

That's what these "firing pin safeties" are meant to solve. Springfield has a much better way of doing it with a titanium .38 Super firing pin and a slightly heavier firing pin spring.

Springfield does not used a standard Super .38 firing pin of .065" diameter, they use a proprietary firing pin of .075" diameter.

 

[WIZZO499]

I'm well aware of that fact, that's why I said Colt/Swartz and not Series 80, two completely different firing pin safeties.

Gotcha, I was a little confused with your wording because Colt tried and abandoned that system for 1911's a very, very long time ago. Why Kimber and S&W use it, I have no clue.

 

[OD*]

Gotcha, I was a little confused with your wording because Colt tried and abandoned that system for 1911's a very, very long time ago. Why Kimber and S&W use it, I have no clue.

Neither Kimber nor S&W use a true Swartz safety, Kimber's is close, S&W's is actually closer to Colt's Series 80. Colt dropped the Swartz at the request of the US Government when building their service pistols, Colt never revived it after the war.

 

[Gpfury86]

I have a kimber with the added safety, I have had the trigger massaged and I think it feels great. I would prefer not to have the added moving parts, but I don't think it's a huge deal. I think a lot of it get's in your head. Omg everytime I pull the trigger not only do I have to release the hammer, but I also have to move a pin out of the way so the firing pin can travel forward...

Edit: I beleive the grip safety is what deactivates the kimber gen II safetys, hence why when you are reassembling the kimbers the slide won't come back if the grip safety is pressed.... This is different in the colt Series 80, I beleive that system is done with the pull of the trigger...

 

[OD*]

A little clarification on FPS's used in several makes of 1911s.

S&W safety (Mochak safety)

Part #7 in the S&W illustration replaces the plunger lever (blue part in the Series 80 illustration), and the trigger bar lever (yellow part in Series 80 the illustration).

Colt Series 80 safety

Kimber safety

Colt/Swartz safety

The Swartz FP block (the safety was designed by Colt engineer William L. Swartz. The first Government Model built with his firing pin safety was assembled on 12 Oct. 1937), intended to prevent the firing pin from moving forward under inertia, as in being dropped etc. It is deactivated by a plunger in the frame when the grip safety is depressed.