Requirement for selling handgun to someone from another state?

[NateIU10]

I believe you have to look at the laws of the state to which the gun is going.

Federal law states that any firearm transaction between non-licensed individuals has to go through an FFL (except as noted above in case of death). It doesn't have anything to do with state law, it's governed by federal law.

 

[Hornett]

Out getting a Subway turkey sandwhich.

What's your question?

Hey Kirk,

NateIU10 answered it a couple of posts up from yours.

How was the sandwich?

 

[Michiana]

Article from a national firearms trade association

May 13, 2008) Everyone knows that you can’t legally purchase a handgun from a dealer in another state, and most folks know that it is a crime to purchase a gun on behalf of someone else or to sell a gun to someone knowing that it is intended for someone else, but there are other deals that many people seem to be confused about.

Ask ten gunowners what the rules are regarding sales by private individuals to other private individuals and you are likely to get at least 12 different answers. There are also questions about transporting weapons, and of course about carrying concealed or open, carrying in cars, and carrying guns in the woods.


Some of the questions can be easily answered while others can get complicated. Here are a few items I have run across recently that are in need of illumination. In all of these cases I am talking about regular folks and regular guns, not FFL holders or C&R items:

1. It is illegal for any person to purchase any handgun from any source in any state in which he does not reside. This is true at gun shows, through newspaper ads, at shooting events, or making a deal with your brother-in-law in the next state over. If you want a handgun that you find outside of your home state, it must go through a dealer in your home state. It is legal to purchase a long gun from a licensed dealer in another state in a face-to-face transaction as long as that sale is legal in both states.
2. It is illegal for any person to sell any handgun to any person who is not a resident of the seller’s state. If you sell a gun to someone and you do not check their driver’s license or in some other way verify that they are a resident of your state, you could face a felony prosecution and possibly lose your gun rights forever! If they are a resident of another state, you can take the money and ship it to a dealer in their state who will require a commission and will have to run the transaction through his books and NICS before releasing the firearm.
3. While it is legal to ship a handgun to yourself care of a contact in another state in advance of a trip to that state, it appears that actually doing so legally is not possible. The US Postal Service and every common carrier I can find UPS, FedEx, and DHL refuses to transport handguns for non-FFL holders. Simply not telling the carrier that there is a handgun in the box would solve that problem except that it is illegal. Federal law requires that you notify the carrier any time you ship a firearm.

I have heard it suggested that it is better to ship guns via UPS or FedEx when traveling rather than go through the hassles of checking them through the airport. This might be true of long guns, especially multiple long guns and cases that are going to incur excess baggage charges and would be a pain to haul around, but not handguns. As noted above, it is virtually impossible to ship handguns without going through an FFL and processing the gun(s) through their books and NICS every time. Being educated about TSA policies and practices and making some simple preparations before going to the airport can make traveling with firearms pleasantly uneventful.

The bottom line on this issue is that there are many things and these were just a few examples that people think they know are safe and legal, but which in reality can result in criminal prosecution. Just because people have done something in a certain way for a long time does not mean that it is a safe and legal practice, and your excuse of simply following tradition over law is not likely to hold sway with any judge or jury.

 

[NateIU10]

May 13, 2008) Everyone knows that you can’t legally purchase a handgun from a dealer in another state, and most folks know that it is a crime to purchase a gun on behalf of someone else or to sell a gun to someone knowing that it is intended for someone else, but there are other deals that many people seem to be confused about.

Ask ten gunowners what the rules are regarding sales by private individuals to other private individuals and you are likely to get at least 12 different answers. There are also questions about transporting weapons, and of course about carrying concealed or open, carrying in cars, and carrying guns in the woods.


Some of the questions can be easily answered while others can get complicated. Here are a few items I have run across recently that are in need of illumination. In all of these cases I am talking about regular folks and regular guns, not FFL holders or C&R items:

1. It is illegal for any person to purchase any handgun from any source in any state in which he does not reside. This is true at gun shows, through newspaper ads, at shooting events, or making a deal with your brother-in-law in the next state over. If you want a handgun that you find outside of your home state, it must go through a dealer in your home state. It is legal to purchase a long gun from a licensed dealer in another state in a face-to-face transaction as long as that sale is legal in both states.
2. It is illegal for any person to sell any handgun to any person who is not a resident of the seller’s state. If you sell a gun to someone and you do not check their driver’s license or in some other way verify that they are a resident of your state, you could face a felony prosecution and possibly lose your gun rights forever! If they are a resident of another state, you can take the money and ship it to a dealer in their state who will require a commission and will have to run the transaction through his books and NICS before releasing the firearm.
3. While it is legal to ship a handgun to yourself care of a contact in another state in advance of a trip to that state, it appears that actually doing so legally is not possible. The US Postal Service and every common carrier I can find UPS, FedEx, and DHL refuses to transport handguns for non-FFL holders. Simply not telling the carrier that there is a handgun in the box would solve that problem except that it is illegal. Federal law requires that you notify the carrier any time you ship a firearm.

I have heard it suggested that it is better to ship guns via UPS or FedEx when traveling rather than go through the hassles of checking them through the airport. This might be true of long guns, especially multiple long guns and cases that are going to incur excess baggage charges and would be a pain to haul around, but not handguns. As noted above, it is virtually impossible to ship handguns without going through an FFL and processing the gun(s) through their books and NICS every time. Being educated about TSA policies and practices and making some simple preparations before going to the airport can make traveling with firearms pleasantly uneventful.

The bottom line on this issue is that there are many things and these were just a few examples that people think they know are safe and legal, but which in reality can result in criminal prosecution. Just because people have done something in a certain way for a long time does not mean that it is a safe and legal practice, and your excuse of simply following tradition over law is not likely to hold sway with any judge or jury.

It is legal to purchase a long gun from a licensed dealer in another state in a face-to-face transaction as long as that sale is legal in both states.

Correct, it has to be a dealer, and IN state law allows this only in adjacent states.

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

This goes for both handguns and longguns.

While it is legal to ship a handgun to yourself care of a contact in another state in advance of a trip to that state, it appears that actually doing so legally is not possible. The US Postal Service and every common carrier I can find UPS, FedEx, and DHL refuses to transport handguns for non-FFL holders.

I can find nothing from UPS that would not let you.

What was the article trying to show though? I'm having a little trouble seeing where it discounts what I said?

 

[UltraRick]

What if I was a Kentucky resident and later move to Indiana. Do I have to transfer my guns I have owned for years? Now I am confused???

 

[NateIU10]

What if I was a Kentucky resident and later move to Indiana. Do I have to transfer my guns I have owned for years? Now I am confused???

Transfer? No idea what that means, but no, you don't have to do anything if you're moving. This is about transferring ownership of firearms.

 

[one more]

From the NRA website

[SIZE=+1]Sales Between Individuals[/SIZE]
An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser`s state. Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence.

Yes, Any Firearm that is being sold to an Individual out of State has to go thought a FFL in the State it is going to. To be done legally.

Thanks Hornett

If it's part of your will (bequest of the deceased) or distributed not through a will, but by an agent of their estate (intestate succession) then it doesn't apply.

Right on NateIU10,

I believe you have to look at the laws of the state to which the gun is going. I have never been involved with this type of situation so I am only making an educated guess but I like to error to the safe side and I would work through a FFL in that state. I always suggest calling the BATF office and ask them.

Yes you need to look at the Jurisdiction Laws of the State, and depending on where you live the County and/or City Laws also. Example, the city of Chicago or the State of California. If you inherit Dad’s or Grandpa’s U. S. Military M-1 Carbine .30 Cal and you live in California you are not going to take it home unless you want to take the chance of losing it and maybe facing charges. You can not take a firearm that is banned in your area, home because it was Grandpa's. Yes, calling the BATFE Office is not a bad idea. I have talked too them more then once.
The County and Cities that have Code in the ATF State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms in our Great State of Indiana are the Consolidated City & County of Indianapolis/Marion County and Code of the City of South Bend. I did not pull out the CD(ATF) just grabbed the last book(ATF) to look this up.

 

[one more]

Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide;
922 Unlawful acts.
(a)It shall be unlawful-
(3)
(A)shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in the State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in the State.

you have to follow your local State and County/City laws also.

This book is 243 pages, I will look some more for a bit about moving from one State to another but it will read the same as the bit above. You have to follow your local Laws.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

The really fun part is that after the gun has been paid for and shipped, the purchasing party still has to fill out a 4473 and undergo the NICS check This also applies to gifting to an out of state party. This "patchwork quilt" of differing state laws and the federal laws is the exact reason we need to incorporate the 2A as well as have some sort of federally issued permit or at the very least mandatory reciprocity between all states. But let's wait a bit longer until we have a tad bit more support from the masses to keep things from biting us in the backside.

 

[david j]

This

 

[Michiana]

Why do people make a big deal out of background checks

The really fun part is that after the gun has been paid for and shipped, the purchasing party still has to fill out a 4473 and undergo the NICS check This also applies to gifting to an out of state party. This "patchwork quilt" of differing state laws and the federal laws is the exact reason we need to incorporate the 2A as well as have some sort of federally issued permit or at the very least mandatory reciprocity between all states. But let's wait a bit longer until we have a tad bit more support from the masses to keep things from biting us in the backside.

Filling out the 4473 and doing the NICS check is uniform throughout the US so I am not sure what you consider a patchwork quilt? My customers can chime in but I think the vast majority of them will tell you their backgroud check and filling out the 4473 is quick and painless. A couple people might get a delayed but that is one out of 50 and all but one walked away with their gun in a day or two. Truth be told most people who do not like going thru a FFL I believe object more to spending the $20 than going through the process. Doing a F2F is often no more convenient and you are taking a chance selling a firearm to someone you shouldn't. Besides meeting in Wal-Mart parking lots is not kool.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Filling out the 4473 and doing the NICS check is uniform throughout the US so I am not sure what you consider a patchwork quilt?

The patchwork quilt I refer to is the differing laws from one state to another regarding adjacent states, states that just plain can't sell to residents of other certain states, some states won't allow you to buy from certain other states but some are ok, etc......Main problem being that the laws of BOTH states must be adhered to.......Believe me, I'm a BIG fan of states rights, but face it, we lost that when we lost the war of northern aggression. Also a big fan of the 10A, but think things would be far more convenient and less complicated with incorporation provided we don't throw away the baby with the bathwater in the process.

 

[Michiana]

The patchwork quilt I refer to is the differing laws from one state to another regarding adjacent states, states that just plain can't sell to residents of other certain states, some states won't allow you to buy from certain other states but some are ok, etc......Main problem being that the laws of BOTH states must be adhered to.......

Got ya'

 

[downzero]

If I were to gift a handgun to my son who lives in another state. Would it have to go through an FFL.?

Yes, unless you die and will it to him.

An FFL is merely a license to engage in interstate commerce of firearms. No firearm can be sold by a non-ffl to a resident of another state.