Question about building rifles

[Ruffnek]

It's my understanding that a dealer without a certain FFL(02?) can't do much as put a lower and upper together to sell them as a whole or do any modifications to an existing firearm.I also know that the same FFL is required to build firearms for sale.My question is actually about two different scenarios.

I've been asked to build a few ARs from parts for people but wanted to clarify before doing so.I could do it one of two ways.

1) Assemble the rifles from parts and sell them as a whole.I'm assuming this is a no-go,even for a few guns.

2) Have them buy the parts and I'll do the assembly as a service,which seems ok as I am not "in the business" of doing so.Would the answer to this change if I did it not-for-profit?

In my (limited) research that I've done,the term "in the business" keeps popping up.It seems that,if it's not my primary income or being used as a supplemental income (i.e. just doing it occasionally),I'm free of needing an FFL,seeing as I'm not operating as a business.

 

[MCgrease08]

I'm not sure why you couldn't buy the parts, build the gun for yourself and then sell it in a private sale. Of course you'd have to be sure the buyer is an Indiana resident and to your knowledge isn't prohibited from owning a firearm.

Lots of people build rifles and eventually sell them to fund other projects.

 

[Ruffnek]

Yeah but this is more like building them for those people.

 

[BogWalker]

I don't know about that, but you could guide them through the process and assist them with no legal ramifications (like a two person build party). They would have to do the assembly themselves though.

 

[Ruffnek]

Well it seems as if I could do it,just not for profit.We need ATF presence on INGO to solve these problems.

 

[BogWalker]

Well it seems as if I could do it,just not for profit.We need ATF presence on INGO to solve these problems.

Heh, I wish all the ones that monitor our posts and classifieds ads would participate in discussion that isn't just entrapment attempts. Gosh darn BATFE lurkers. (not sure what font color...)

 

[danielson]

Well, I offered to make a map of all members. That makes me pretty much an ATF spy on INGO, right?

How can I help? BAHAHAHAHHA

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Well, I offered to make a map of all members. That makes me pretty much an ATF spy on INGO, right?

How can I help? BAHAHAHAHHA

It's true, Danielson works for the ATF. He wants to make a map of all INGO members. He's not kidding. He does work for the ATF.

ATF would frown upon anyone assembling rifles and then selling them afterward regardless of whether one's intent was or was not to sell them after the fact.

 

[ScouT6a]

I would think whoever purchases the lower receivers and thus fills out the paperwork would have already purchased the "firearm" technically. If you turn around and hang all the other parts off of the receiver and then sell it, it would be just like any other private sale.
I think you are on the right track with the "in the business" terminology and the fact that this would not be your full time job/main source of income but I don't think the BATFE can even put out a magic number as far as how many firearms an individual can sell and not be "in the business"

 

[danielson]

If I was gonna be a fed, Id want to be ICE, just cause it sounds cool.

 

[Manatee]

The rules are not as straightforward as they might appear, so generalities aren't worthwhile. Excise tax rules also come into play, so it's not a straightforward ATF issue.

However, you should not be buying parts for others and then assembling them for them. If you assist them assembling the parts that they have purchased and do it without a profit motive, then there is probably no reason to be concerned. The "them" in this case should be a relatively small number of people who are not legally bound from owning such firearm.

 

[ScouT6a]

I know from having a C&R ffl years ago that the main purpose of that license is for collectors to purchase firearms for their collection. Legally, according to the ATF, you could still sell firearms. Didn't have to keep them forever and ever. They still never put a number on how many you could sell.

 

[Ruffnek]

They're all legal to own firearms.I was going to do the assemblies only,with them paying for everything.My original intent was to do one for a friend and the only 'profit' was that my name would go with the build so that I could maybe develop a reputation/resume for a time when I could find a gunsmith position under the FFL of a local shop,or build a large enough clientele to justify my own FFL.They were the ones who offered to toss me a bone.

 

[ScouT6a]

Sounds like you are saying that they are going to buy all the parts, to include the lower receiver. I see no problems with you building the rifles for them, in this case.

 

[Ruffnek]

That was my thought.

 

[Trooper]

If the person who is buying the gun would purchase the serialized portion (the lower receiver) then you would be legal to assemble a rifle for them. There is a guy who comes from Ohio who builds upper receivers on the spot at the Indy 1500. As along as you are not selling the serialized portion, I would say that you are legal.

 

[Manatee]

If you are developing a "reputation" and are taking work in, you are in the business of gunsmithing. You need a license. If you want more guidance, call the local ATF office and talk to them.

 

[rbsangler]

I suppose, depending on a few things, this practice could be argued to be a "straw sale". I agree with the notion that.....if "they" purchase the lower(technically, this is the "gun") And you simply help them assemble it(or do all of it for them) you would be in the clear. Be VERY careful about the exchange of any compensation though. Compensation starts being more about income and taxes, and less about firearms.

 

[KC101]

The ATF does say that if you are working on "Gun Smithing" on any firearm other than your own you must have a FFL. I don't have the reg.'s in front of me right now, but thats what it states clearly. If you are assembling "building" them then you must also have a FFL.

 

[Ruffnek]

I'd be doing this to build a reputation so that I could get a license and take work in.I can't justify the money for an FFL on 3 ARs that someone would be willing to give me $20 to do the work.However,if word spreads and people start coming to me,I could develop a wait list until I get an FFL.

The regulations I've seen pretty much say that,as long as you're not doing it for primary or supplemental income,it's ok.This is like you doing an oil change for a friend after they buy the filter and oil and then giving you $20 for your time.All I really have to do is tell them that I don't want payment,which is what I did in the beginning,they offered to pay me for my time and work.