Quad Rail/Vert Grip for AR15

[glockguy07]

I'm looking to add a vertical grip onto my ar15 and I'm guessing that will require me getting a quad rail...

Any advice/experience on which manufacturer I should buy from?

Does anyone know what the military issues to soldiers?

Thanks

 

[ashylarry]

I'm looking to add a vertical grip onto my ar15 and I'm guessing that will require me getting a quad rail...

Any advice/experience on which manufacturer I should buy from?

Does anyone know what the military issues to soldiers?

Thanks

Rizzo and I both have the UTG quad rail and I also bought the UTG fore grip. Price is pretty good $60 and it feels pretty solid. There is better out there if you have the money.

If you want a surefire brand I can get them for 10% over cost.

 

[glockguy07]

Rizzo and I both have the UTG quad rail and I also bought the UTG fore grip. Price is pretty good $60 and it feels pretty solid. There is better out there if you have the money.

If you want a surefire brand I can get them for 10% over cost.

And how much would that run me? Would it be worth the extra $?

Any pictures??

 

[ashylarry]

They have a lot of different ones. Surefire Picatinny Rails and Forends Provide Rock-Solid Weapon Fit

If you let me know a few model numbers I can look up the pricing.



I would wait and get some other opinions of some other rails. See what everyone else uses. But the surefire products are great.

 

[VUPDblue]

Are you going to want free-float rails or a 2-piece system?

 

[glockguy07]

Are you going to want free-float rails or a 2-piece system?

I've heard the term "free float" but have no idea what it entails

What are the pros/cons between the two systems?

 

[Ri22o]

You don't NEED a quad rail to run a foregrip. There are companies that make a short section of rail that attaches through the holes in the hand guard. Then you are able to attach your foregrip to that rail.

Also, I have a KZ hand guard, not UTG.

 

[ashylarry]

Also, I have a KZ hand guard, not UTG.

I thought you told me you had the UTG?

 

[cougar_guy04]

Any advice/experience on which manufacturer I should buy from?

Personally, I'd look into LaRue, Surefire, or KAC (if you can find them). Magpul is also releasing a lower cost option this year for the AR's with carbine gas systems (MOE Handguards, $29.95 according to the '08 catalog).

Does anyone know what the military issues to soldiers?

I can't say for certain who all supplies rails; but as far as I know, KAC is supplying rails for M16's and M4's directly to Colt and FNH in addition to supplying to the DoD for retrofitting older guns that are already in service. There may be additional suppliers as well.

You don't NEED a quad rail to run a foregrip. There are companies that make a short section of rail that attaches through the holes in the hand guard. Then you are able to attach your foregrip to that rail.

That's exactly what I've run on my AR:

MidwayUSA - Midwest Industries Bolt On Handguard Rail 4" AR-15 Aluminum Black

Cheaper than a quad rail and enough for what I'm running (selling that M951 since I can't get both it and the VFG on that section of rail).

 

[VUPDblue]

I've heard the term "free float" but have no idea what it entails

What are the pros/cons between the two systems?

Free float guards allow the barrel to 'float' inside the guards without touching them. Standard guards touch the barrel near the delta ring and just behind the front sight base. For a CQB rifle, this is usually not a concern. For varmint or target guns, this is a major concern. Free floating barrels are more accurate because the barrel harmonics are the same each time the weapon is fired. The downside of free floating guards is that installing them requires removing the front sight base and gas tube, and the re-installing them. That all being said, free float rails are usually more stable and rigid than any 2 piece design.

 

[Ri22o]

I thought you told me you had the UTG?

No, that is what I had originally ordered, but it was on back order.

 

[Don]

I have a UTG on my SBR as well.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Troy Industries makes a nice free float rail. My S&W M&P15T uses it along with the flip up sights. Most free floats will give you a continuious rail unless you have an A2 Upper.

Troy Industries, Inc.

 

[shooter521]

The downside of free floating guards is that installing them requires removing the front sight base and gas tube, and the re-installing them.

Not so; Troy, Samson and MI all make 3-piece FF systems that do not require removal of the FSB or gas tube. They DO, however, require you to remove the delta ring and spring. If the gun is already built (i.e. you're replacing standard handguards), the easiest way to do this is to just cut the m-f'er off with a Dremel.

Daniel Defense recently introduced the Omega rail, which is a free-floating design that requires NO modifications to install. It's fairly expensive, but you can't beat the convenience. It's also stupid light (a whopping 8 ounces), has an ergonomic oval shape like the standard M4 handguards, features built-in sling swivel sockets with rotation limiters, and includes rail covers. I've got one that will go on my LMT shorty upper, when it finally gets here...

free float rails are usually more stable and rigid than any 2 piece design.

I'm going to disagree with you there, too. I've installed several of the metal 2-piece "drop in" (non-FF) systems (Yankee Hill, MI, Surefire), and they felt just as solid as the Troy or Samson floaters.

Finally, the "stick a piece of rail on your standard lower HG" works OK as a quick-and-dirty solution for mounting a light or laser, but it really isn't well-suited for a vertical grip. I've seen more than one guy inadvertently rip off his lower HG by putting too much pressure or torque on a VFG attached in that manner.

 

[rhino]

Daniel Defense recently introduced the Omega rail, which is a free-floating design that requires NO modifications to install. It's fairly expensive, but you can't beat the convenience. It's also stupid light (a whopping 8 ounces), has an ergonomic oval shape like the standard M4 handguards, features built-in sling swivel sockets with rotation limiters, and includes rail covers. I've got one that will go on my LMT shorty upper, when it finally gets here...

I originally ordered the MI equivalent for my house gun to save a little money, but then the k00l kIDz on m4carbine.net (and BigCraig) peer-pressured me into cancelling it and getting the DD Omega. I have to admit that I do not regret the choice at all, as it's an incredibly well made piece of equipment. It really is that easy to install, because rhino did it by himself in a few minutes.

In addition, the price difference wasn't that much when you consider that the DD Omega has the sling mounts machined into it, whereas I'd have needed an add-on for the MI rail. Plus, the rail covers (which I still have not installed) are not cheap either. All in all, the DD Omega doesn't cost that much more and it's worth a lot more in my opinion.

This is from a guy who currently has two identical Pelican 9V lights mounted on the rail on either side of the foregrip.

Finally, the "stick a piece of rail on your standard lower HG" works OK as a quick-and-dirty solution for mounting a light or laser, but it really isn't well-suited for a vertical grip. I've seen more than one guy inadvertently rip off his lower HG by putting too much pressure or torque on a VFG attached in that manner.

I have to agree with this too. It's in my nature to do things as inexpensively (sometimes cheaply) as possible, so I used a piece of rail, a one-inch scope ring, and a SureFire G2 on my rifle for a few years. It worked fine, but when I decided I wanted to try a foregrip, I quickly realized it didn't work well. The problem with the lower handguard coming off is a real concern, plus when you torque on a foregrip, you also run the risk of altering point of impact when you put unusual pressure on the barrel.

I quickly realized I needed to get a suitable rail system. I chose a free-float because since I was doing it anyway, why not? Now I know for certain that no matter how I pull on the foregrip, it's not going to affect my point of impact. If I put a bipod on there, the same is true.

You can try to go cheap with a piece of rail and cheap foregrip and it might suit your needs nicely. On the other hand, for most people it's going to be false economy when you realize it doesn't work well for you and you need to buy the better equipment anyway. Given the price of ammo, and extra $100 on a good quality rail system (over the price of a crappy one) is not a significant expense.

I'm all for cheap, but there some things that are no longer candidates for compromise for me:

red dots and other optics
magazines
rail systems
and maybe a few other things

 

[VUPDblue]

I guess I have been significantly 'owned' by shooter521 and Rhino. It is clear that they have more experience (or at least more recent experience) than I do at these 2 piece forends. Years ago when I was in the same boat as the OP, I tried a couple 2 piece options. First was one of those plastic Fobus equivalent pieces, the next was a Surefire 2 piece system. The plastic forend should never have been manufactured. The Surefire was not what I expected either, but better than the plastic one I tried. I resolved myself right then and there that the ONLY option was a true one-piece free floated forend. I maintain that philosophy to this day, that is why I have zero knowledge of the rail systems that shooter and rhino seem to know oh-so-well. If I ever had any hands-on experience with these new fangled rails, I may have a change of heart. Until then, I'll stick with my free-float forends, thank-you-very-much. The extra added bonus, for me at least, was that I am now very familiar with mounting (and dis-mounting) the entire gas system and FSB. That alone is worth learning by installing a free-float forend, at least IMHO. YMMV etcetera etcetera...

 

[rhino]

Nick, if I make it tomorrow, I'll bring my house gun with me and you can take a peek at my DD Omega rail. It's a two-piece freefloater ...

I didn't think things like that existed either! I was going for a two-piece because I didn't want the hassle of removing my front sight base. Then I learned during my research about the two-piece freefloat rails and saw some good feedback about how solid they were and I was sold.

 

[shooter521]

I resolved myself right then and there that the ONLY option was a true one-piece free floated forend. I maintain that philosophy to this day, that is why I have zero knowledge of the rail systems that shooter and rhino seem to know oh-so-well.

As Rhino pointed out, the price difference between the 2pc non-floating rails and a good free-float system may not be all that much once you start comparing apples to apples, and in that case I'll take the free float, thankyaverymuch. The "modern" free-floaters are WAY easier to install than the 1- or 2-piece "tube with rails bolted on" systems of old.

The extra added bonus, for me at least, was that I am now very familiar with mounting (and dis-mounting) the entire gas system and FSB.

You call it a bonus, I call it a pain in the ass. But I'm just lazy that way.

 

[bigcraig]

In the past I recommended Troy forearms for folks looking for easy installation, but now I consider the DD Omega as a best buy in this category.

But make no mistake, if it is my personal choice, I will choose a LaRue everytime. (the KOOL-ADE is just that good.)

 

[glockguy07]

Yeah I'm stuck between the KAC RAS - 2pc non floating system and the DD Omega 2pc free floating system.

Which one should I get?

OR .... Should I just go buy another AR and accessorize later...?