PW AAR Critique

[jd4320t]

Ok guys, several of you have PMd me asking why I got so bent out of shape over the PW AAR. You asked me for specifics so I'm gonna give you a few examples of what I saw that I had an issue with, and how I feel it should have been done differently. This is in no way a digg or insult to anyone, rather my observations on how the day could have been improved.


Now for the post-critique disclaimer.
I am not a professional training dude, but I have spent my fair share of time on a range as both a student and RO. Any time I am on a range my number one concern is safety. Any education you can take with you after safety concerns have been met is a bonus. Some of those who will be reading this know me personally or have been on a range with me either as a fellow student or on a range that has been under my command, or simply recreationally shooting on an unsupervised range. I'm sincerely happy that you guys (and gals) all had a fabulous time and that you might have even learned a thing or 10. I'm also ecstatic that no one got injured. To that end, I would suggest implementing some more rigorous safety measures and guidelines for next time. There is nothing wrong with getting together to have fun and doing some shooting but please, do it safely.
Also, as noted in the other thread I started earlier today, my intention is not to be disrespectful but rather to point out some (what I consider to be) shortcomings.

Have fun and be safe.

The OP appeared to me to be a great post that was asked of him by some INGO members. If you didn't ask him for feedback then please don't attack him or other members in this post. It's just going to end up locked like the last one and noone will learn anything. I've learned things already.

 

[Pami]

You start off with the fact that you know it all!! !

Actually he didn't. He's been very up front that he KNOWS he wasn't there, and that he KNOWS photos can sometimes be deceiving. He's only seeing a snapshot in time, and he is making his statement based only upon what he has seen. VUPDblue has been very up front about that.

So, correct him.

 

[HandK]

First off I did not ask that you ask me questions!!! merely stated that is what should have been done in the first place!!!

And anything I say at this point is going to sound like an excuse for what you all deem to be a training fail!!! how can I or anyone win or even draw (no pun intended) with the deck already stacked against them!!

You take for granite that all you talk about was not discussed You have seen maybe 5 to 10 min out of about 6 hours!! and assumed that was all there was to it!! I said good Day

 

[esrice]

And anything I say at this point is going to sound like an excuse for what you all deem to be a training fail!!! how can I or anyone win or even draw (no pun intended) with the deck already stacked against them!!

LET IT BE KNOWN THAT ANY RESPONSE FROM HANDK49031 IS NOT AN EXCUSE, BUT RATHER AN EXPLANATION AS TO THE EVENTS ON THE DAY IN QUESTION, WHICH HAS BEEN REQUESTED BY SEVERAL MEMBERS OF INGO.
​

There you go, problem solved.

I really am genuinely interested in your response.

 

[Bigum1969]

This sorta reminds me why it took so long for me to finally go into a gun shop and purchase a gun.

There are so many people who seem to know "everything" about guns, and, really look for any opportunity to share it... even if you didn't really want to hear it in the first place.

I believe any smart person can imagine how this all makes HandK feel. He's a big guy and doesn't need me to defend him. I will say that I do know that he has a lot of qualifications to teach... certainly a lot more than anyone posting in this forum.

I mean, there's even questioning of the backstop. For the love of god, why do we even have to defend this? The area the shoot took place is used 3-5 nights per week for shoots. It is completely safe. Is there nothing that doesn't have to be defended to appease those that are "in the know"?

The original AAR report for the shoot was a place for us, as in "those who participated" to share pictures and videos. It was not called a critique. And believe me, we weren't inviting what happened.

I feel like no matter what I type, it won't make a difference. I participate in a broad range of activities in my life, and I run across all types of people. But a few folks here on INGO leave me scratching me head.

Why should HandK have to defend anything to those questioning him in this thread and others? I mean, who appointed a few folks the gun training police?

If you can't see how this is making him feel, then typing this was a waste of two minutes.

 

[jclark]

My #1 piece of advice would be this: Define a clear path for your event. This holds true for ANY event. In the PW case, I think the line between 'fun shoot' and 'training' became a bit fuzzy, and this caused folks to drop their guard a bit more than they would if they had just paid $400 for a 2-day pistol class. If you want to have a fun "open shoot", then do that. If you want to have a "free training day", then do that. Just make sure that the different standards for each event are adhered to.

I was there to enjoy myself as much as I could in the 97 degree weather.
This was my first time ever with any formal handgun training.
With the limited time we had, I'm sure H&K could not cram in all the things we needed to learn.
I have watched my own videos and found what I need to work on.
I really don't understand why you won't let this go.

Someone said something about we shouldn't be shooting at a moving target.
I have been shooting at moving targets for years. I'm sure a Dove with a 25 mph tailwind will move way faster than a picture of a bad guy on a string.

I have learned one thing....the next time we shoot, train, or take a dump, I will no longer post pics of it on this site.

 

[HandK]

I will respond but I have some errands to run before I can tackle it!!

 

[shooter521]

I will say that I do know that he has a lot of qualifications to teach... certainly a lot more than anyone posting in this forum.

Then why is he not willing to share those qualifications with those who are asking?

Is there nothing that doesn't have to be defended to appease those that are "in the know"?

The original AAR report for the shoot was a place for us, as in "those who participated" to share pictures and videos.

No, it was an AAR, as in After Action Report. If it was just for those who participated and you didn't want anyone else to comment, for the love of God, why post about it in a public forum? If you wanted to share pics and videos with your group, put them on a CD and mail 'em out, or put them on Photobucket and send the URL to your group via Email or PM. By starting a thread on INGO, you invite commentary by anyone and everyone; that's the nature of the beast, and you don't get to start when some of that commentary is less than positive.

Why should HandK have to defend anything to those questioning him in this thread and others?

Because any instructor who believes in what he is teaching should be willing to step up and explain - or defend if necessary - the benefits of a particular technique and why he teaches the things he does. Simple as that.

I am making no comment on the activities of the day; it's the response to legitimate questions and criticisms that has me scratching my head.

 

[esrice]

Thanks for your posts guys. I now realize that my intent to help has missed its mark, and is instead making folks uncomfortable. That is not something I want to do.

I'd rather see you guys continue to contribute here on INGO than have any bad blood between members.

I will be removing my posts above, as to not continue to make anyone feel unwelcome.

ETA: HandK would you prefer I leave them up to frame your response? Completely your call.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Actually he didn't. He's been very up front that he KNOWS he wasn't there, and that he KNOWS photos can sometimes be deceiving. He's only seeing a snapshot in time, and he is making his statement based only upon what he has seen. VUPDblue has been very up front about that.

So, correct him.

I think alot of the YouTube videos speak for themselves...

HERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS

1. Did you classify the shooters for the drills based on experience? IMO novice shooters should not be mobile while engaging targets.

2. Was this range operated as 'cold'? From the videos it does not appear that way...

3. (An easy one) What were the range rules?

 

[HandK]

Thanks for your posts guys. I now realize that my intent to help has missed its mark, and is instead making folks uncomfortable. That is not something I want to do.

I'd rather see you guys continue to contribute here on INGO than have any bad blood between members.

I will be removing my posts above, as to not continue to make anyone feel unwelcome.

ETA: HandK would you prefer I leave them up to frame your response? Completely your call.

Go ahead and leave them up!! thank you!!

 

[Bigum1969]

Then why is he not willing to share those qualifications with those who are asking?







No, it was an AAR, as in After Action Report. If it was just for those who participated and you didn't want anyone else to comment, for the love of God, why post it in a public forum? If you wanted to share pics and videos with your group, put them on a CD and mail 'em out, or put them on Photobucket and send the URL to your group via Email or PM. By starting a thread on INGO, you invite commentary by anyone and everyone; that's the nature of the beast, and you don't get to start when some of that commentary is less than positive.



Because any instructor who believes in what he is teaching should be willing to step up and explain - or defend if necessary - the benefits of a particular technique and why he teaches the things he does. Simple as that.

I am making no comment on the activities of the day; it's the response to legitimate questions and criticisms that has me scratching my head.

I bow down to your awesomeness...

I don't believe HandK owes you anything.

And we have learned our lesson... as jclark said, we will privately host information from our next shoot.

You don't even have the slightest idea how you come across.

 

[Scutter01]

I've had it.