Private colleges

[JoshuaW]

I just want to verify this, a private college that shares public roads and public resources would not be able to restrict carry on say, a sidewalk, correct?

I was in the AT&T store at Eddy Street Commons the other day, and a Notre Dame security officer tried to tell me that I could not carry there. The employees were fine with it, and Eddy Street is definitely not part of Notre Dame, so I tried to explain that to her, but she wasnt having any of it. I finished my transaction and walked to my car, it wasnt like she actually had any real authority there. It got me thinking though, if I was across the street and actually on campus, I still dont think she could have asked me to leave. As far as I know, the university streets are still actual South Bend streets, and assuming I wasnt in a building or "on their lawn", they cant do squat, correct?

Obviously I am using Notre Dame and South Bend as an example, but this would apply to any private college with a similar structure.

 

[Hoosierdood]

How could a private security guard from the college ACROSS THE STREET tell you that you cannot carry on public property that he has no jurisdiction over? I would have told her to pound sand and went on my merry way. If she had a problem, she can call the police who would tell her the same thing. By the way, I have carried on campus before, even in the stadium right down on the actual field. Of course, I was CC at the time. (please don't hold that against me)

 

[CountryBoy19]

AFAIK you're correct. I know for a fact that word passed down from campus security at ISU to my wife (who was an RA there are one time) was that you cannot have them on any campus property but they had no control over the streets and the sidewalks that border public streets. Private drives, sidewalks through campus etc were still off limits.

 

[9mmfan]

Endy Street commons is NOT part of Notre Dame! That is on private property. I believe that the South Bend Police and Notre Dame Security/Police have an agreement that allows Notre Dame Police (not security) to patrol the area immediately surrounding the campus. IUSB has the same agreement. The cannot project campus regulations onto public streets, but as certified police officers they should know state law. ND security has NO jurisdiction off campus. Ditto on telling said officer to 'pound sand.

 

[darrent]

NDPD can give you a trespass warning and order you to leave if you enter onto University property with a weapon. If you come back, then they can arrest you. University police have jurisdiction on campus and on any streets through or adjacent thereto.

So, my first question would be, does the University actually own the property that AT&T was located and it is being leased (sorry, I don't know the area). If i is, then they would have a right to order you to leave and warn against future trespass.

I'm not advocating the practice, just passing along info.

 

[Bill B]

Are Notre Dame police sworn comissioned officers? It is a private college. If not they can pound sand. If they are then they can enforce the law even off property.
I'm sure one of our LEO or attorney friends will correct me if I'm wrong, or otherwise provide more detail.

 

[darrent]

They are LEOs. The campus calls them security police so it sounds nicer I guess.

 

[canav844]

Are Notre Dame police sworn comissioned officers? It is a private college. If not they can pound sand. If they are then they can enforce the law even off property.
I'm sure one of our LEO or attorney friends will correct me if I'm wrong, or otherwise provide more detail.

I think there is NDPD and NDS from reading the thread and NDS is in question, yet even still off property with the ATT employees blessing there is absolutely no grounds for the PD to make you leave.

 

[Bill B]

They are LEOs. The campus calls them security police so it sounds nicer I guess.

How the heck does that work? A private business with it's own police?!

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

How the heck does that work? A private business with it's own police?!

The University of Indianapolis, also a private college, has it's own small sworn police force.

-J-

 

[youngda9]

Why would you need a gun near Notre Dame...isn't that a gun free zone ?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Why would you need a gun near Notre Dame...isn't that a gun free zone ?

I've emailed back/forth with the author of that cartoon! Seems like a cool guy.

Always cracks me up when I see it.

 

[eldirector]

Butler University is the example I'm familiar with. They have their own police department, as a sub-whatever of IMPD. They patrol campus and the surrounding area. They are 100% a real police department.

College campuses can be kind of a grey area, especially for college employees (the LE office). City streets are 100% public, even if they pass through campus. Some folks are under the assumption that a "campus" has some sort of border, but it is really just made up of adjacent private properties, with public streets passing through. It was not uncommon for BUPD to enforce university policies on otherwise public property. For instance, they would ticket students for parking on public streets, as there was a no-street-parking "rule" on campus.

Remember, though, that colleges may very well have private streets, and may own (and lease to a third party) property that isn't part of their "campus".

 

[JoshuaW]

How could a private security guard from the college ACROSS THE STREET tell you that you cannot carry on public property that he has no jurisdiction over? I would have told her to pound sand and went on my merry way. If she had a problem, she can call the police who would tell her the same thing. By the way, I have carried on campus before, even in the stadium right down on the actual field. Of course, I was CC at the time. (please don't hold that against me)

Exactly why I stayed and finished my transaction. She stood there and stared at me the entire time, then tried to follow me out, but there was nothing she could do.

Endy Street commons is NOT part of Notre Dame! That is on private property. I believe that the South Bend Police and Notre Dame Security/Police have an agreement that allows Notre Dame Police (not security) to patrol the area immediately surrounding the campus. IUSB has the same agreement. The cannot project campus regulations onto public streets, but as certified police officers they should know state law. ND security has NO jurisdiction off campus. Ditto on telling said officer to 'pound sand.

Eddie Street is not. I know IUSB's officers are actual police officers, not security. The person I was dealing with was security, so she genuinely had NO AUTHORITY in Eddie Street, or anywhere off campus for that matter.

NDPD can give you a trespass warning and order you to leave if you enter onto University property with a weapon. If you come back, then they can arrest you. University police have jurisdiction on campus and on any streets through or adjacent thereto.

So, my first question would be, does the University actually own the property that AT&T was located and it is being leased (sorry, I don't know the area). If i is, then they would have a right to order you to leave and warn against future trespass.

I'm not advocating the practice, just passing along info.

The university does not own Eddie Street. They invested in it and pushed the project along, but it is owned by the Eddie Street Commons Corporation (or whatever the hell they call themselves).

Are Notre Dame police sworn comissioned officers? It is a private college. If not they can pound sand. If they are then they can enforce the law even off property.
I'm sure one of our LEO or attorney friends will correct me if I'm wrong, or otherwise provide more detail.

I am not sure if the NDPD are sworn or not. I know the IUSB officers are. The lady I was talking with did not appear to be. She just had a radio and an ND ID badge that said in large letters across the bottom "Security"

 

[CarmelHP]

Are Notre Dame police sworn comissioned officers? It is a private college. If not they can pound sand. If they are then they can enforce the law even off property.
I'm sure one of our LEO or attorney friends will correct me if I'm wrong, or otherwise provide more detail.

State law gives colleges and universities a broad power to maintain a police force. See, IC 21-17-5.

 

[sigmachijc]

I also got cited for the same thing when walking on Riverside in Muncie when I was a student at Ball State. It made me feel very safe knowing that they are protecting me from myself (rolling eyes).

 

[JoshuaW]

Don't let nd push you around.

Oh god no. My new house is within walking distance of campus. I am not going to stop OCing when I run, or walk the dog, or ride my bike. ND and all the "privileged" kids will have to learn to tolerate it.

 

[Bill B]

State law gives colleges and universities a broad power to maintain a police force. See, IC 21-17-5.

So, in a nutshell, they might have juristiction even off campus; but their is no easy way to tell. Even if the dept. has authority, some individual officers may not. What a crock

 

[Destro]

So, in a nutshell, they might have juristiction even off campus; but their is no easy way to tell. Even if the dept. has authority, some individual officers may not. What a crock

Also, the security officer could (probably not) have special deputy status with the county. She would have full LE powers while on duty as security. Did she have a gun?

 

[jbombelli]

So if they have jurisdiction off campus, how does that let them enforce a law that, to my knowledge, doesn't exist?

I don't believe it's illegal to carry on campus (am I wrong?) - just against the rules. But how do those rules apply as enforceable law off campus?