President Trump Indicted on Federal Charges

[SheepDog4Life]

I wonder what the level of evidence has to be to make you actually accept that he is guilty, or if there even is one.

Probably no level will reach that point...

According to the most fiercely loyal Trump supporters, he could have wall-papered Mar-a-Lago, or every Trump hotel lobby, with the nation's most sensitive documents and simply said that they were his personal papers.

 

[KLB]

Those after Trump have way overplayed their hand several times before so it needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt.

I have a feeling what is beyond a reasonable doubt to most people will not reach that with his most ardent supporters. I wonder if any evidence could convince one.

 

[BugI02]

Probably no level will reach that point...

According to the most fiercely loyal Trump supporters, he could have wall-papered Mar-a-Lago, or every Trump hotel lobby, with the nation's most sensitive documents and simply said that they were his personal papers.

And, according to the most ardent Trump haters, they will take the government's word that the documents were in fact 'national security secrets' without ever having even a general accounting of their nature beyond that claim disclosed

I cannot accept this government's word about anything, they have lied far too many times

 

[BugI02]

I have a feeling what is beyond a reasonable doubt to most people will not reach that with his most ardent supporters. I wonder if any evidence could convince one.

You'll never know if we aren't shown the evidence (at least as much as possible)

 

[KLB]

You'll never know if we aren't shown the evidence (at least as much as possible)

They better. Anything less will be seen as nothing but political to those of us that don't have a side in this.

 

[BugI02]

As I've said before, an innocent description of some aspects of security at Andrews for Air Force 1 (I know the prez is supposed to be on it to actually receive that designation, but use it as convenient short hand) as part of a peripherally related communication could easily be classed as a 'national security document' for the purposes of entrapment and bogus prosecution

I used the example of the map of the Cuba invasion plan, developed during the missile crisis, that McNamera had in his possession long after he was a government official. It bore no declassification marks

So, years later, if someone was arrested for possessing that 'national security document' would knowing more of the details not better enable you to call bull**** on the charge?

 

[bobzilla]

The fear NYT is expressing is not that Trumpers will be swayed by seeing the trial on TV. It’s that you will be swayed.

Well that won't happen. That much OMB in your blood you can ignore anything.

 

[BugI02]

Why isn't the presumption of innocence until proven guilty an INGO thing if Trump is concerned?

 

[Shadow01]

I’m curious if the agents that collected the documents at Mara had the correct clearance to see and handle the documents they claim were top secret? Was anyone in eye shot of the documents that didn’t have clearance?

 

[bobzilla]

Why isn't the presumption of innocence until proven guilty an INGO thing if Trump is concerned?

Orange. Man. Bad. Nothing else matters at all.

 

[jamil]

And, according to the most ardent Trump haters, they will take the government's word that the documents were in fact 'national security secrets' without ever having even a general accounting of their nature beyond that claim disclosed

I cannot accept this government's word about anything, they have lied far too many times

That's a fair point. The indictments make a claim. The trial should reveal whether that claim is true or not. They've made **** up before.

 

[jamil]

They better. Anything less will be seen as nothing but political to those of us that don't have a side in this.

It may be that they don't care. Anyone paying attention could see that the J6 committee hearings were political theater with cherry picked facts. And it doesn't matter because the media is carrying their water.

 

[jamil]

Why isn't the presumption of innocence until proven guilty an INGO thing if Trump is concerned?

I think all the charges against Trump so far are pretty much ********. The documents one could stick though if the claims are true. We need to get through a trial and see the evidence before he's guilty. The point others are making, if the charges are proven beyond reasonable doubt, can the ardent Trumpers accept that?

 

[BugI02]

I wish McCarthy would just put all 1400 hours of J6 video up on an open source server and let citizens start wading through it at will

Since Carlson was silenced merely for giving us a tantalizing taste of all the lies that are likely debunked by that footage, I have not seen or heard much more about it

 

[BugI02]

I think all the charges against Trump so far are pretty much ********. The documents one could stick though if the claims are true. We need to get through a trial and see the evidence before he's guilty. The point others are making, if the charges are proven beyond reasonable doubt, can the ardent Trumpers accept that?

Is there a secure chain of custody for what they took? I'm not sure I'm even willing to believe what they eventually present if it is just the unsupervised DoJ that has had possession of them. I just don't trust anything about government agencies anymore. If the FBI wasn't rotten through and through there would be more leaking/whistleblowing

 

[jamil]

I'm still skeptical of McCarthy. I don't think he's all that interested in the truth of J6 coming out. He's interested in holding the speakership long enough to make it through another election while hoping that the coalition of House members who stuck him with promises will lose their seats. And then he can be the chamber-o-commerce republican he wants to be.

 

[bwframe]

 

[KLB]

Why isn't the presumption of innocence until proven guilty an INGO thing if Trump is concerned?

It is for almost all of us.

 

[KLB]

Is there a secure chain of custody for what they took? I'm not sure I'm even willing to believe what they eventually present if it is just the unsupervised DoJ that has had possession of them. I just don't trust anything about government agencies anymore. If the FBI wasn't rotten through and through there would be more leaking/whistleblowing

So your answer is no. You will never accept Trump could be guilty.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

And, according to the most ardent Trump haters, they will take the government's word that the documents were in fact 'national security secrets' without ever having even a general accounting of their nature beyond that claim disclosed

I cannot accept this government's word about anything, they have lied far too many times