Organizations (NRA GOA JPFO)

[danielson]

I posted in this in another thread, but felt like it was thread jacking so..

I grew up with alot of guys who HATE the NRA, say they are part of the problem, they give in to liberals, and theyre just a business, a scam. I hear about the GOA and the JPFO as being better.. Really I have NO clue which is best, and ive been on the fence for awhile..

So this is what it looks like to me, dont get pissed and flame me either, Im not saying anything BAD about any of these organizations, as I KNOW NOTHING about them.. But this is what it seems like.

NRA seems like a scam, if someone came to my door, and proposed some insurance and a magazine, and a sticker, I would assume its all BS and run them off. Why is it any different, just because its about firearms and the second amendment?

GOA, seems like a legitimate non profit group. are they affective, I have NO idea...

JPFO looks like the NRA only I dont feel like I belong, not being Jewish

Whats some opinions on this?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I can tell you that there is only one effective pro-gun lobby on Capitol Hill and that is the NRA. The others have roles, and many flags against the enemy, but talk to INGO members that have worked on Capitol Hill and they will tell you that only the NRA has juice.

I do not know what you mean by scam? If you don't want the insurance, or a magazine or mailings, then don't get them. The people that complain the loudest are always looking for excuses not to join the fight.

It is not a scam. Politicians may be stupid but they can count.

they give in to liberals

An enormous amount of misinformation exists and revisionist history is ongoing among Republican operatives. I have detailed it here on INGO if you search.

Some do not like that the NRA is open to working with Democrats and that irks those partisans on the Right. Consider the source of those that say this. Certainly grounds to criticize everything and everyone but such hatred usually betrays partisan motives or shame in their own lack of fight.

You can look into the GOA. Some do not like its stance on gun control (e.g. coming out against legal immigrants having arms that was detailed on INGO) or its decidedly more partisan stance, some like it for exactly this.

As a founding member of JPFO (when it was JPSA) I can tell you that JPFO welcomes all faiths. JPFO does excellent things and serves a wonderful role, but they are tiny.

 

[danielson]

The people that complain the loudest are always looking for excuses not to join the fight.

It is not a scam. Politicians may be stupid but they can count.

Im not sure what you mean by that, I never complained, I asked...


They are pushing a frikin credit card on their membership page... Its a business, I bet they make a killing...

I dunno... Ive been thinking about joining, just because I hear theyre "the voice for gun owners" But Im always skeptical about where I spend my money.

 

[pudly]

Well, you can be skeptical if you want, but you can't name any other 2A group that comes anywhere near the NRA for influence on legislation. They raise money via multiple channels to help maintain your gun rights. Memberships, merchandise sales, direct contributions, etc. are all used for public education, firearms safety training, monitoring gun-related politics and influencing legislation.

You missed one other major group- the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF). Just as the NRA is influential in Congress, the SAF has been very effective at the court level. They were the group that won both the Heller vs. DC and McDonald vs Chicago decisions- major 2A wins.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Im not sure what you mean by that, I never complained, I asked...

Not saying you complained, sir, just people in general use those complaints as excuses not to join the fight.

They are pushing a frikin credit card on their membership page... Its a business, I bet they make a killing...

1. Many organizations have credit card arrangements with providers.

2. I hope the NRA is making a killing. Fighting takes money. I see nothing wrong with the NRA making money.

But Im always skeptical about where I spend my money

You are smart to do so.

The world needs more cross-examination.

 

[danielson]

Some of the reading here makes me think..

National Rifle Association 2010 IRS Form 990

Took an interest in page 7, employee compensation.

page 17 is interesting as well... 4 million dollars of investments in Central America and the Caribbean...

interesting.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Took an interest in page 7, employee compensation.

The NRA is a four million member organization. Not out of line.

However, concern has been raised at BoD meetings. There was even discussion about compensation at the St. Louis meeting that I attended.

page 17 is interesting as well... 4 million dollars of investments in Central America and the Caribbean

Yes, of course, diversification, just like your 401K or pension fund has invesments there.

 

[Leo]

"2. I hope the NRA is making a killing. Fighting takes money. I see nothing wrong with the NRA making money."

Thanks Kirk for the voice of reason. Those who want to control us have huge amounts of money, most of it is stolen from us taxpayers.

If the NRA only had money from the $35 memberships (that most expect $100 in benefit from) their whole resource would probably be a website and a rented office. I have been a life member for years, and I am still in the habit of sending them an extra check on a regular basis. I volunteer at the banquets, and am generous with the NRA "round up" donations places like MidwayUSA have when you order. I am of fairly humble means right now but I chose to round up to the next $10. Some can round up to a nearest 100 without crimping their lifestyle. If the 80 million people who own guns all thought like that we would not have gotten in this mess.

I go to some of the big shoots and see rows of 100K motorhomes containing people who shoot $15,000 shotguns. They are the first ones to bellyache that the "NRA just wants your money" Like the fat slob would miss it....

Every battle we can win in DC and the Statehouses is still cheaper than the battles we many someday fight with blood and bullets.

 

[CitiusFortius]

NRA seems like a scam,

Do you follow gun politics even a little bit????

 

[Kirk Freeman]

danielson, just so you know, I have been a member of the NRA since 1986, a Life Member since 2000 and became an Endowment member in 2011, and have been a Golden Eagle since 2003 and a Friend of the NRA sponsor since 2001. I sit on the Board of Directors of the Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association.

Just so you know who you are dealing with and the cards are on the table.

 

[Libertarian01]

To Danielson (et alia),

Here is a personal opinion take on things.

I think Kirk has nailed most of it on the head, but I will put my own opinionated spin on things (not disagreeing with Kirk mind you. I am far to wise for that)

I think the NRA is much more pragmatic about legislation and less idiological. By this I mean that the NRA has seen in the past writting on the wall with certain social pushes and fought to ameliorate the damage done. In so doing it abandons a purely ideological stand to "get the best deal it can get at the time." In so doing it looks to purists like the NRA is stabbing them in the back but what it is really doing is being objective and recognizing that they are going to loose, so they compromise and try to loose LESS.

GOA and JPFO on the other hand tend to take a "win or die" approach and embrace a more ideological point of view. This is great with the purists yet may be counterproductive to the overall battle for preserving 2A freedoms, as the money spent becomes "wasted." This all or nothing approach can produce, at times, exactly - nothing.

I see the need for both types of organizations. One that is a realist willing to bend for a time and come back in ten (10) or twenty (20) years reattacking a law or issue, while the other fights tooth and nail for every inch, understanding that inches will be lost.

There are aspects of the NRA I do not appreciate. With all the "free entries" to win firearms I mailed back I should at least have ONE high caliber hunting rifle I don't want by now. That said, the NRA is the most powerful player in DC with the membership and money to carry the fight for years to come.

So pick the first group to support. All are good. Just understand the methods of each and give to all three (3) while supporting the others to a lessor degree.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Leo]

Kirk, Thank you for your service to the cause of RKBA. I know it takes a lot of time, and I know that you absorb a lot of expense out of your own money. I appreaciate your efforts.

 

[danielson]

Ever get that feeling like you might probably should have kept your mouth shut? Yea I get that alot... But guess what, its a question worth asking, and if that means Im ostracized, than so be it.

 

[pudly]

I didn't see any ostracizing at all. I did see legitimate disagreement and information sharing.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

daniel, no, please, ask questions. We are simply having a discussion and sharing our knowledge.

Please ask more questions.

 

[LANShark42]

FWIW, I'm a member of the NRA, GOA and SAF. By their own admission, the GOA wasn't even invited to joe biden's little gun discussion party a couple of weeks ago. Not sure about the SAF.

The NRA is most definitely a force to be reckoned with.

 

[danielson]

WOW.. I felt like I had stepped into freemasons lodge and started questioning their organization..

Kirk, Im sorry, I thought you were strong-arming me.

Thank you, libertarian, I think Im a purist. I dont like compromise and it drives me crazy that we do. The fact is, there is and should be no NEED to defend this constitutional right.. THEY ARE IN VIOLATION, why are we letting them push us back, and settling on lost ground? its ludicrous..

But I also see what your saying about how having an all or nothing stance creates a stalemate. But thats what should be, in regards to the constitution, a stalemate. Except it would be FOLLOW the constitution PERIOD..

 

[87iroc]

I didn't see any ostracizing at all. I did see legitimate disagreement and information sharing.

+1

I thought the responses(albeit maybe the one) were not crawling up your behind and giving you an exam.

You want to feel ostracized and need the nomex undies...suggest mandatory training is good or that a 10 round mag limit is OK. <I am NOT supporting those...just saying!>

 

[danielson]

How about compulsory military service?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Kirk, Im sorry, I thought you were strong-arming me.

How could you?

Answering questions is not strong-arming. It is being a good INGOer.