Open Carrier Wins $10K Judgement Against Wisconsin Cops And City

[mrjarrell]

For being harassed and detained illegally a court in Wisconsin decided to award an open carrier $10K in damages. It really should have been a larger award, IMO. $10K is pocket change to a city and the likelihood is that very little will change. He's also challenging Wisconsin's Gun Free School Zone Act. I wish him the best of luck with that one, too.

via WQOW

 

[kludge]

I heard that this wasn't a "judgement" but rather a "settlement" (I may not have my legal terms exactly right). As you said the suit regarding the school zone thing is still moving forward.

Hopefeully it's cases like these that will help get CC for WI, and FWIW I've heard that the AG is saying that open carry is not reason to detain a person and sieze their gun.

 

[melensdad]

Why do so many of the pro-gun advocates have to look like this guy?

Man wins $10,000 judgment from city for Sept. arrest over gun

RACINE - A man won $10,000 from the city after he sued in federal court over his September arrest.

Frank Hannan-Rock of Racine was one of three parties to the lawsuit.

Wisconsin Carry, Inc., a non-profit organization, filed the suit with Hannan-Rock and David Bernson of Milwaukee in January in the Eastern District of Wisconsin federal court.

Hannan-Rock claims Racine police improperly arrested him after he refused to give his name or other information while they were investigating a weapons-fire complaint Sept. 9 in his neighborhood.

Hannan-Rock was openly carrying a gun in a holster when police arrived.

Hannan-Rock was arrested for obstructing. Police later found that the call reporting weapons fire had come from Hannan-Rock's home.
Bernson made similar claims against Milwaukee police.

In the lawsuit, the plaintiffs ask for damages and for a ruling that declares the gun-free school zone rule at least partially unconstitutional.

The city offered the judgment on Feb. 25, saying it would pay $10,000 to resolve all claims arising from Hannan-Rock's arrest. Wisconsin Carry and Hannan-Rock accepted it the next day, and the court entered the judgment last week.

Nik Clark, chairman and president of Wisconsin Carry, Inc., said they expected this would be the outcome of at least portions of the lawsuit. Members of the organization don't want to be "harassed by the police" while open carrying, Clark said.

Attorney Kevin Reak, who represents the city in this matter, said officers didn't have authority to arrest Hannan-Rock for refusing to identify himself. Changing that is a question for the state Legislature, Reak said.

"I don't know how you feel about people carrying guns around, but I personally think a police officer should be able to go up to someone who is openly carrying a gun and verify some information from them to ensure that they're not a felon, for example," Reak said. "In Wisconsin you're not able to do that. These officers had the best intentions and were trying to protect the community, but because of a technical defect in our laws, you can't arrest someone for merely refusing to identify yourself, and that's what (Hannan-Rock) did."

Still, Reak said, the judgment does not admit any liability or guilt. It was about limiting the amount of money the city may have to pay if the case went to trial and was decided in Hannan-Rock's favor.

Clark hopes this judgment is a wake-up call.

"It is public precedent that if you arrest someone for open carrying, just the fact that you're arresting them is exposing you to liabilities," he said. "(This judgment) says to other municipalities, if your officers arrest someone for doing something that's completely legal, Wisconsin Carry will take action against that, and from a persuasion standpoint, this is what another municipality had to pay, and what you could have to pay to settle a suit for arresting someone for doing something that's perfectly legal."

In this case, Clark said, the city offered the $10,000 judgment. He pointed out that it is not a settlement, and said Wisconsin Carry would not have accepted a settlement, where the case is dismissed as part of negotiations. The judgment, though entered into voluntarily, is still a judgment against the city and for Wisconsin Carry and Hannan-Rock, Clark said.

The Hannan-Rock case is on Tuesday's Finance and Personnel Committee agenda. It is listed as a closed session item, with no action requested. The City Attorney's Office has authority to approve settlements up to a certain dollar amount, officials said, and this judgment appears to be under that cap.

As for the other defendants in the case, Milwaukee has not made an offer of judgment, Clark said, and the case is also still open against Racine County District Attorney Mike Nieskes and the State of Wisconsin. Clark expects Milwaukee to make a similar offer of judgment, he said, but that the state will ultimately have to take the question over the legality of the gun-free school zones to trial.​

 

[MoparMan]

So there were shot fired reported from this idiots house. The cops respond the idiot wont give his name and info and the police arrest the idiot for obstruction.

Whats the problem?

 

[level.eleven]

Why do so many of the pro-gun advocates have to look like this guy?

I dig the look!

But, from a marketing standpoint, I see what you mean. Not exactly the guy you send into the board meeting to give a sales presentation.

 

[XMil]

Why do so many of the pro-gun advocates have to look like this guy?

Because wealthy, clean cut white guys don't face nearly the scrutiny, and when they do, their lawyers make things happen more smoothly.

 

[henktermaat]

Because wealthy, clean cut white guys don't face nearly the scrutiny, and when they do, their lawyers make things happen more smoothly.

Most clean cut white guys aren't wealthy.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

I'm relatively clean cut but not wealthy. I can't has lawsuit?!? :0(

 

[rightwingmilitia]

i am glad for him but I would have asked for 10x the cash amount just to set a bigger precident... Now the city of racine knows they can violate rights and it will only cost them 10k... Like the article says 10k seems to be nothing to them.... make the adjudicated punishment sting and they will think twice about doing it.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i like the fact that when the "establishment" doesnt get their way they then talk crap about the laws that they always hide behind themselves.

"because of a technical defect in our laws, you can't arrest someone for merely refusing to identify yourself, and that's what (Hannan-Rock) did."

 

[E5RANGER375]

PAPA SMURF IS THAT YOU???

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

He almost has a Charlie Manson/Helter Skelter look to him.

 

[HandK]

Why do so many of the pro-gun advocates have to look like this guy?

​

​

When did Charles manson get out of jail!!!

 

[Joe Williams]

For being harassed and detained illegally a court in Wisconsin decided to award an open carrier $10K in damages. It really should have been a larger award, IMO. $10K is pocket change to a city and the likelihood is that very little will change. He's also challenging Wisconsin's Gun Free School Zone Act. I wish him the best of luck with that one, too.

via WQOW

The size of the award is really irrelevant. The city and it's officers now have no excuse to continue their actions. If "very little changes," they have now opened themselves up to federal civil rights criminal complaints. The judgement is significant.

 

[XMil]

Most clean cut white guys aren't wealthy.

I'm relatively clean cut but not wealthy. I can't has lawsuit?!? :0(

Reading comprehension much?

 

[Eddie]

Sounds like a new argument for Open Carry. "Because I might get arrested and then I can sue!"

 

[Bill of Rights]

For being harassed and detained illegally a court in Wisconsin decided to award an open carrier $10K in damages. It really should have been a larger award, IMO. $10K is pocket change to a city and the likelihood is that very little will change. He's also challenging Wisconsin's Gun Free School Zone Act. I wish him the best of luck with that one, too.

via WQOW

i am glad for him but I would have asked for 10x the cash amount just to set a bigger precident... Now the city of racine knows they can violate rights and it will only cost them 10k... Like the article says 10k seems to be nothing to them.... make the adjudicated punishment sting and they will think twice about doing it.

The problem is that it doesn't cost the City of Racine anything. It costs the taxpayers of the city of Racine. The City doesn't earn anything, they just extort it via taxes.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Timjoebillybob]

So there were shot fired reported from this idiots house. The cops respond the idiot wont give his name and info and the police arrest the idiot for obstruction.

Whats the problem?

The call supposedly came from his house, but wasn't reported to be at his house. The call said there were shots down the street and gave the description of the guy, which supposedly didn't match this guys description. The LEO went to the house and didn't find the guy, then seen this guy down the street on his porch. From the WI code

968.24 Temporary questioning without arrest. After having identified himself or herself as a law enforcement officer, a law enforcement officer may stop a person in a public place for a reasonable period of time when the officer reasonably suspects that such person is committing, is about to commit or has committed a crime, and may demand the name and address of the person and an explanation of the person's conduct. Such detention and temporary questioning shall be conducted in the vicinity where the person was stopped.

They didn't find out the 911 call originated at his house until afterward, and he didn't match the description of the person. How could the LEO have reasonable suspicion that he committed the crime. Also he was not in a public place, he was on his porch. That is the problem.

The size of the award is really irrelevant. The city and it's officers now have no excuse to continue their actions. If "very little changes," they have now opened themselves up to federal civil rights criminal complaints. The judgement is significant.

As much as I'd like to agree with you.

Still, Reak said, the judgment does not admit any liability or guilt.

Sounds like a new argument for Open Carry. "Because I might get arrested and then I can sue!"

Heck yeah, that's my retirement plan

 

[wtfd661]

So, lets see. A call of shots fired in the neighborhood come from this idiot's house. Then conveniently enough he is outside so the responding cops, who are responding to a shots fired in the area, see him open carrying a handgun. And we think its OK cause he, though he was outside, was on his porch (therefore private property), he refuses to cooperate with the officers (who again are responding to a shots fired call) and now we celebrate this idiot getting money from the city when it was obvious that was his intention the entire time.

I think I will reserve my accolades for someone who deserves it, not this asshat.

Idiots like him do more damage than good. I came into this thread hoping for something better than this. I really came in here hoping for a true victory.

Just my

 

[jedi]

Timjoebillybod beat me to it infantrylife! This has been a really long, long story with this guy (in a good way for 2A). He and his lawyer pre-planned his actions so to speak. The city of Racine has been know as much of WI to stop/arrest you for OC even though the state said it was OK per the law. So this man came up with a plan to get arrested and sue the city. Dig the INGO files about 1.5 years ago for more on the story.

IMO I would not have taken the 10K. I would have wanted the entire racine PD to have to attend some type of reducation classes, sponsor some type of community OC event, etc... BoR said it best it did not cost the city anything. & this guy is not in it for the $$$$ since he has other suits pending. But by forcing the individual LEOs and the LEO staff (city board, cheif of police, etc...) to do "something" (training, community event, etc..) that is outside of what their job it might force them to think
about trampeling all over the rights of WI citizen and think...

Hum.. last time we were punished "with time" & I'm not sure I want that again.