Ofc. Chompy rides again

[The Sandman]

Ran across this news item and knew Kirk would just love it. I'm sure I'll be able to hear the anguished screams "test him ... TEST HIM!" all over town. ( I agree BTW) It really gets good at the 1:20 mark, it's a classic Ofc. Chompy moment.

Summary: Phoenix arson investigator and his dog are never wrong. Meanwhile, innocent people get to spend time in jail and about 30 previous cases are under review. Of course, no charges will be filed, returned to work and reassigned.

Prosecutors won't charge Phoenix arson investigators

Two people wrongly charged because of a dog's testimony - AOL.com

 

[Kirk Freeman]

*runs down streets of downtown Lafayette*

Test him! Teeessssttttt himmm!

Sooner or later the state supreme courts are going to have to put the stupid dogs back on the leash.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The presence of an accelerant alone would not be enough PC for an arson arrest. I'm suspecting there is more to the story. Shocking, I know.

Dogs don't testify any more than breathalyzer machines testify. They are tools. The human "operating" them must do his part, and is the one who testifies.

As far as the "you gotta put your nose down. At least fake it for me okay?" The bomb dog handlers I worked with talked to their dogs like that constantly if they weren't doing their jobs. They'd complain their dog was just going through the motions and not actually working, talk to the dog, and make him run the search lane again. Get it in context, and I'd say you probably hear him haranguing the dog to do what its trained to do.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Dogs don't testify any more than breathalyzer machines testify. They are tools.

Tools that are unregulated and not calibrated. Guiltometers are at least regulated and calibrated.

 

[The Sandman]

So in essence, the human who's word is the one that counts in court is ok with telling his dog to fake it? Wow. What ever happened to "find it boy!"? Sounds like someone who isn't willing to accept that there might not be anything there for the dog to find. If there IS something for him to find an he isn't, A) retrain the dog or retire him or B) the person walks until some actual evidence is found, not harangue the dog until he finds something. Then again, the dog is never wrong, so they keep running the search line until he alerts to please his handler. Either way, if there was more to the story for an arrest as you say, his actions caused charges to be dismissed and a bunch of cases to be reviewed. I wish I could do such sloppy work (not saying it was BAD work, just sloppy) and cost my company that kind of money and keep my job.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So in essence, the human who's word is the one that counts in court is ok with telling his dog to fake it?

Well, the "fake it" was not optimally used, but what is controlling is that Chompy is a scientific "tool" because are told so.

The dog is an expert because we are told so. We never get shown numbers, the dogs always bat 1.000.

What if the dog had a cold? What if Bill Gates crept into the Chompy Cage and gave the dog a vaccine that impacted its sense of smell. What if we are just being shined on about the dog being able to smell anything at all and is simply trying to please its handler?

Right now, false hits cost law enforcement nothing, absolutely nothing. Make the police keep batting averages and expand 617 to include dog sniffs.

 

[hornadylnl]

The presence of an accelerant alone would not be enough PC for an arson arrest. I'm suspecting there is more to the story. Shocking, I know.

Dogs don't testify any more than breathalyzer machines testify. They are tools. The human "operating" them must do his part, and is the one who testifies.

As far as the "you gotta put your nose down. At least fake it for me okay?" The bomb dog handlers I worked with talked to their dogs like that constantly if they weren't doing their jobs. They'd complain their dog was just going through the motions and not actually working, talk to the dog, and make him run the search lane again. Get it in context, and I'd say you probably hear him haranguing the dog to do what its trained to do.

A tool just took a 4 year olds leg off. It's a small price to pay but worth it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[phylodog]

A tool just took a 4 year olds leg off. It's a small price to pay but worth it.

And guns kill children every year both intentionally and accidentally. I guess they should go also.

Kids die in car crashes, back to riding horses. Oh, wait. Horses trample kids and injured them when they buck them off, no horses either. We should probably get rid of bad weather while we're at it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

And guns kill children every year both intentionally and accidentally. I guess they should go also.

Kids die in car crashes, back to riding horses. Oh, wait. Horses trample kids and injured them when they buck them off, no horses either. We should probably get rid of bad weather while we're at it.

And parents. Parents kill lots of kids but we allow children to live with them everyday.

 

[phylodog]

And parents. Parents kill lots of kids but we allow children to live with them everyday.

Got em on the list now, thanks.

 

[Rookie]

Don't forget water.

 

[phylodog]

Don't forget water.

Consider it banned, can't have kids drowning now can we?

 

[KLB]

And guns kill children every year both intentionally and accidentally. I guess they should go also.

Kids die in car crashes, back to riding horses. Oh, wait. Horses trample kids and injured them when they buck them off, no horses either. We should probably get rid of bad weather while we're at it.

Now there is an idea I can get behind!

 

[Rookie]

No kidding. I'm over this cold weather!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Can we, for once, keep the peas and carrots apart from each other?

Whether we give the coppers dogs is a policy question that the taxpayers can address. However, if the police use the dogs for things like "tools" (drug detection, arson, explosives, etc.), let's change the rules of evidence to track more with science than the current faith-based prosecutions.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

A tool just took a 4 year olds leg off. It's a small price to pay but worth it.

What's that have to do with dogs trained to detect? That's like complaining about chainsaws in a thread about washing machines.

Well, the "fake it" was not optimally used, but what is controlling is that Chompy is a scientific "tool" because are told so.

The dog is an expert because we are told so. We never get shown numbers, the dogs always bat 1.000.

CI tested the DoD dogs, and us, routinely. Explosive residue, short lengths of det cord, small chunks of C4, etc, was put in cans and hidden in vehicles. The dogs seemed pretty expert to me, and were much more reliable than the trace detection machines that we used. I don't know how you'd get the numbers you want. If the dog smells explosives and we don't find any, is that a false hit by the dog? CI would handle a block of C4 then drive the car. The dog would hit on the car and the trace machine would hit on the swabs from the door handle and steering wheel. What would we find? Nothing, as the only C4 present was way too tiny to be found by us. How do you count that for the dog if it wasn't a CI test? What actually happened was the driver was pulled from the search lane and had a chat with CI. If they are 'expert' enough to shut down a military base and protect high profile general officers, I'm ok with them being 'expert' enough to find a joint if they come from a trainer and handler who've shown they can find residue in test environments.

 

[pitbulld45]

Any chance to do some Police bashing. Man that never gets old here

 

[The Keymaster]

This is not about police bashing, this is about accepting an animal's indication, and the officers interpretation of that indication as being 100% correct 100% of the time. Can we all honestly say that this system is perfect. I personally don't believe it is, and I also believe it can be, and is abused to create PC.

 

[atvdave]

This is not about police bashing, this is about accepting an animal's indication, and the officers interpretation of that indication as being 100% correct 100% of the time. Can we all honestly say that this system is perfect. I personally don't believe it is, and I also believe it can be, and is abused to create PC.

^^^^This^^^^

Still waiting for the rest of the evidence to come forth, if the two turds in the links can not produce the "evidence" that arson was the cause, then they should be charged like the rest of us.