no duty to retreat in your home but...

[rich8483]

...basically legally allowed to shoot first ask questions later, but what if you are in a Detached garage or other outbuilding changing the oil in your car and some one busts in to steel your dewalt nailer and all your craftsman tools? is it considered your dwelling or curtilage and you have to right to use deadly force to defend property or are you 50 feet from your safe zone?

 

[dburkhead]

IANAL but from the Indiana Code:
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
...
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.[emphasis added]
....

"Curtilage" is a fancy way of saying "yard and outbuildings" and would include a detached garage:

From Curtilage Law & Legal Definition

Curtilage is the immediate, enclosed area surrounding a house or dwelling. The U.S. Supreme Court noted in United States v. Dunn, 480 U.S. 294 (1987), that curtilage is the area immediately surrounding a residence that "harbors the `intimate activity associated with the sanctity of a man's home and the privacies of life.'' Curtilage, like a house, is protected under the fourth amendment from "unreasonable searches and seizures.''

From Curtilage legal definition of Curtilage. Curtilage synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

The area, usually enclosed, encompassing the grounds and buildings immediately surrounding a home that is used in the daily activities of domestic life.
A garage, barn, smokehouse, chicken house, and garden are curtilage if their locations are reasonably near to the home. The determination of what constitutes curtilage is important for purposes of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures of a person and of his or her home or property. Courts have construed the word home to include curtilage so that a person is protected against unlawful searches and seizures of his or her curtilage.

And from Curtilage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In law, curtilage is the enclosed area of land around a dwelling.[1] It is distinct from the dwelling by virtue of lacking a roof, but distinct from the area outside the enclosure in that it is enclosed within a wall or barrier of some sort. It is typically treated as being legally coupled with the dwelling it surrounds despite the fact that it might commonly be considered "outdoors".
This distinction is important under US law for cases dealing with burglary and with self defense under the Castle Doctrine. Under Florida law, burglary encompasses the English common-law definition and adds (among other things) curtilage to the protected area of the dwelling into which intrusion is prohibited. Similarly, a homeowner does not have to retreat within the curtilage under Florida's Castle Doctrine.

 

[Sureshot129]

I'd say if the are in a enclosed location on property you own that they had to force entry to gain access they are fair game. Garages and tool sheads are full of things you own and things could be used as a weapon against you. I'd NEVER fire without identifiying my target and making sure they are a threat. I don't want to kill anyone but if they had a weapon or a tool that they could use as a weapon and are unknown to me or a person that should not be on my property without my permission. I don't see a problem with defending myself then again I'm am not a lawyer.

 

[techres]

1. There is no specific duty to retreat in any code that I know of.
2. There is no specific permission to use lethal force over property either.

so

3. If you are in fear of life and/or limb, get on with defending yourself with all means necessary and do not waste time retreating unless it is to get to better cover.

 

[rich8483]

my question seems answered. but does curtilage include any part of your yard if it is not fenced in? im guessing not. and people walk or bike through my front yard all the time (no sidewalks here) without trouble, its just that if they were in my back yard on my large piece of property (other than my neighbors) i would be a wee bit curious.

dont get my wrong. im not the type of person who would just open up shooting. i hope i never have to do that in my life ever. i just want to know where i stand legally so i know how to make a decision before i need to make one. i would use shooting as a last resort always.

 

[dburkhead]

my question seems answered. but does curtilage include any part of your yard if it is not fenced in? im guessing not. and people walk or bike through my front yard all the time (no sidewalks here) without trouble, its just that if they were in my back yard on my large piece of property (other than my neighbors) i would be a wee bit curious.

dont get my wrong. im not the type of person who would just open up shooting. i hope i never have to do that in my life ever. i just want to know where i stand legally so i know how to make a decision before i need to make one. i would use shooting as a last resort always.

From what I see on the various legal definitions it doesn't seem so. Indiana law and case law may have a somewhat different definition but I don't know about that.

But note that the Castle doctrine authorized lethal force againt unlawful entry into the various protected areas "dwelling, curtilage and occupied motor vehicle." Even if the castle doctrine does not apply in an unfenced yard, you can still use the self defense provisions. Maybe you can't shoot the guy who wandered into your yard, even if he won't leave when you ask him to, but if someone's running at you with an upraised baseball bat and screaming that he's going to kill you, that's a whole other ballgame.

 

[SMiller]

The garage must be attached to be considered your home, a car must be occupied. I have a detached garage so I can't do anything but call the cops. Learn the rules and use the search, a drill or hammer or car isn't worth the trouble that comes from a shooting!

 

[dburkhead]

The garage must be attached to be considered your home, a car must be occupied. I have a detached garage so I can't do anything but call the cops. Learn the rules and use the search, a drill or hammer or car isn't worth the trouble that comes from a shooting!

Read the law. It does not say that. Your garage is "enclosed" and on your land in close proximity to your house, that makes it "curtilage" by definition. And the castle doctrine law say "dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.

 

[rich8483]

someone else brought up an interesting point about the intruder having to force entry. what if the door was left unlocked like sometimes i do if im home during the day (i of course lock it at night when im sleeping) but would that mean he has not intruded?

 

[ocsdor]

Easy fix here. Make the garage attached.

 

[DRob]

Remember

Write this on the blackboard 500 times:

I was in fear for my life.

 

[rich8483]

Easy fix here. Make the garage attached.

easier said than done. i have two detached "garages" and one is bigger than the house. barn is a better word.

 

[rich8483]

Write this on the blackboard 500 times:

I was in fear for my life.

in reality, playing the self defense card is the easiest. and really, if i didnt feel like my life was truly in danger, even if a guy was in my home, i wouldnt shoot.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

someone else brought up an interesting point about the intruder having to force entry. what if the door was left unlocked like sometimes i do if im home during the day (i of course lock it at night when im sleeping) but would that mean he has not intruded?

The law doesn't state forcible entry, just unlawful entry. Just like vampires if you didn't invite them in, they aren't allowed.

IANAL but from the Indiana Code:
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
...
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry

 

[06orange1300c]

Yeah, your property is all good...but a jury might see any non-inside area as ify..

 

[cce1302]

in reality, playing the self defense card is the easiest. and really, if i didnt feel like my life was truly in danger, even if a guy was in my home, i wouldnt shoot.

+1
Good plan.

 

[MeltonLaw]

Curtilage is a nice term of legal fiction that simply means all parts of your property up to the city/county/state owned land that is sure to be present at a border of your property.
The exact application of the statute involving defense of curtilage has never been articulated in an Indiana court of law.
Forcing entry does not mean that a door has to be kicked or a window smashed. You can get a charge of breaking and entering by breaking the plane of the door. Even if its unlocked the intruder is forcing entry.
You cannot use lethal force to protect chattels unless your L&L are being threatened.
You can use lesser force to maintain possession of your chattels.
A garage does not need to be attached, that is just ridiculous.

 

[VUPDblue]

Curtilage is a nice term of legal fiction that simply means all parts of your property up to the city/county/state owned land that is sure to be present at a border of your property.
The exact application of the statute involving defense of curtilage has never been articulated in an Indiana court of law.
Forcing entry does not mean that a door has to be kicked or a window smashed. You can get a charge of breaking and entering by breaking the plane of the door. Even if its unlocked the intruder is forcing entry.
You cannot use lethal force to protect chattels unless your L&L are being threatened.
You can use lesser force to maintain possession of your chattels.
A garage does not need to be attached, that is just ridiculous.

This is good advise. A couple common points of law that people get tripped-up over are things like "breaking and entering" and the differences between burglary and robbery. B&E simply means that someone is in your residence who shouldn't be. They don't actually have to "break" or force their way in. As was said earlier, they are breaking the plane of the doorway.

 

[GuyRelford]

I think you guys should take Comprehensive Indiana Gun Law on October 18!

 

[GuyRelford]

"Determining the boundaries of curtilage is imprecise and subject to controversy. Four of the factors used to determine whether to classify the area as curtilage include:

1) The distance from the home to the place claimed to be curtilage (the closer the home is, the more likely to be curtilage);

2) Whether the area claimed to be curtilage is included within an enclosure surrounding the home;

3) The nature of use to which the area is put (if it is the site of "domestic activities," it is more likely to be a part of the curtilage), and

4) The steps taken by the resident to protect the area from observation by people passing by (shielding from public view will favor the finding that the portion is curtilage)."

Curtilage Law & Legal Definition