New SBR project... maybe a little over my head

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Beowulf

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,881
    83
    Brownsburg
    I just bought an Arsenal SLR106U pistol from a fellow INGOer, with the thought of turning it into an SBR. Some light research suggested it was made as a "shovel ready" SBR platform, with the folding stock trunion built into it. But as I dug a little deeper, it seems there are some other features that make it a little trickier. Some additional mods need to be done to accomodate the stock latch (maybe not a big deal), but it would seem it needs a new front sight block, because Arsenal in their infinite wisdom put one without threading on the gun. Instead, they put a turned down FSB on it, with a pinned/welded fake flash hider on it, and a 10.5" barrel that actually goes through the fake flash hider.

    IMG_1924.JPG


    From what I've ready, what needs to be done (other than the mods for the stock) is a new FSB with threading on it needs to be installed, the barrel needs to be cut down to a shorter length and recrowned (8" maybe). At that point, I can screw on a standard 24x1 muzzle break, or put a suppressor on with an 24x1 adapter (which I conveniently have already purchashed so I can put my Huntertown Kestrel 556 on my Arsenal AK-74). There also seems to be some question of whether the SBR would then need to be made 922 compliant, as the original pistol did not need to. I've seen arguments (and two different, contradictory, ATF letters) both ways. One opinion is that you are paying the stamp to add a stock to a pistol and as such, it doesn't need to be 922 compliant (unlike starting with a rifle donor gun). The other opinion is that it doesn't matter what you started with, if the end result could be construed as a rifle, then it must be 922 compliant.

    So, honestly, I'd much rather have someone else do the grunt work and I just pay them. I'm open to filing the form 1 and waiting or sending it off to a good group and have them transfer it back local (if they weren't already local). I'm not really in a rush. I'd like to get a feel for how much this will cost (parts wise, it seems like it should only be $200 to $300). I got a pretty good deal on the pistol, so I'm willing to put some money into it.

    What does concern me is that I've found a couple other threads here on INGO about turning these pistols into SBRs, but no one seems to have completed them. The owners seemed to have gotten rid of them and abandoned the projects (I've seen the pistols, including this one, for sale in the classifieds). So, did I make the same mistake everyone else did and buy into a money pit?

    Does anyone have any recommendations on a good outfit that could do this type of work?
     

    wsenefeld

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    69   0   0
    Dec 2, 2011
    2,187
    48
    Boone Co.
    I bought that exact pistol with the same project in mind. After talking to several people, it just isn't a great (or even good) starting point. I bought before doing much research because the description Arsenal gave was "sbr ready". After finding out how much work it was going to be to get the proper rear trunion in there, I was already having doubts. Then when I talked to Allen Moore and found out I would need somebody with skill who knew how to operate a 20 ton press to remove the barrel (and properly replace it) for threading... it just wasn't worth it. I sold it and built another AR pistol for about the same and all I'll have to do is a stock swap. With what it would have cost to SBR a 106U, the stamp was already paid for with the AR.
     

    engineerpower

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Jun 1, 2008
    585
    18
    State of Boone
    You can do it all yourself, if you want it badly enough. I built a bulgy krink from a romanian parts kit using a dreml, BFH, a small arbor press, and some files. The receiver was a self-bent without all the fancy tools or jigs, just a vice, a hammer, angle iron, and drill rod + nuts. The front latch isn't a big deal, and replacing the rear trunnion just requires cutting the rivets and riveting in the new trunnion after some dremel work.

    Chill your front end in a freezer, heat the trunnion with a propane torch, and push out the barrel with a gear puller and penny. Heck, you could weld in the trunnion and not even need to pull the barrel. Thread the barrel for 14mm threads and either use that or add on a 14 to 24mm adapter. It's not hard, and you can do it in 15 minutes. AK's are built to be simple to build and work on; a dremel will take you much further than you think.

    ETA: Just saw you're in the State of Boone, too. I can give you some guidance if you decide to do any of the above on your own. I'm rebuilding a 10" South Bend lathe, so someday I'll have turning capacity too!
     

    tradertator

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    128   0   0
    Jul 1, 2008
    6,848
    63
    Greene County
    The SLR106CR would definitely be a little easier to build a 106UR with, but you've still got a good base with what you've got. As already mentioned, Sellers at Inrange would be a great place to send it.
     

    Beowulf

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,881
    83
    Brownsburg
    I'll have to give the Inrange guys a call. I also sent an e-mail out to Iron Curtain Creations down in Kentucky, since they were recommended on one of the AK forums, as well as Arsenal Inc. themselves, to see if they had any suggestions, since they make an SBR version of the same gun in house. I guess in the end, if it gets too crazy, I can abandon the project like everyone else and buy one of the other suggested pistols, as their prices seems to have plummeted pretty heavily (I saw Paps selling for $900 and now they are $550 on J&G). It's a bit of a shame, as I've always view Arsenal as pretty close to top in the AK market (at least in the sub-$1000 stamped world). I was pretty stoked to get an Arsenal SBR.

    I got a good enough deal on the pistol that I'm not too worried about getting most of my money out if I decide to sell it.
     

    Beowulf

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,881
    83
    Brownsburg
    I heard back from Arsenal and they suggested contacting the Firing Line in Oklahoma. So I'll reach out to them as well.
     

    Beowulf

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,881
    83
    Brownsburg
    Okay, I have messages in to Firing Line (OK), In Range (TN), and Iron Curtain Creations (KY). I'll report back what they say and what the estimates are. Hopefully, if nothing else, I can turn this into an actual useful thread on converting the Arsenal pistols, so the next guys doesn't have to do all this leg work.

    Update 1: In Range is not taking on modification projects currently.
     
    Last edited:

    10ring

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 16, 2008
    623
    18
    Classified
    Contact Chris Butler at AKUSA - AK-103 - contact us.

    Great guy and he doing this for my Arsenal SAM7K that I'm currently turning into a SBR and have the stamp in process. He knows what he is doing and you won't end up with a rifle that throws key-holes all over the place.

    You will need to buy:

    The Largest AK-47/74 Rifle... <-- always seems hard to come buy and on backorder currently.

    and

    FLASH HIDER, Original...
    or
    http://www.cncwarrior.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=23901

    When done, you will have:

    SAM7K_with_flash_hider_zps9c2824a8.jpg


    flash_hider_removed_close_zps151d692f.jpg
     
    Last edited:

    10ring

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 16, 2008
    623
    18
    Classified
    And on the stock - I don't care about having a folding stock on this rifle, so I am going to have my gunsmith remove the little sling tab off the rear block that is pinned into the back of the receiver, drill and tap two 10-32 holes in that rear block, and then mount an ACE pig nose to the existing block to accept any AR style (Magpul) tube and stock I feel like using.
     

    Airwolf

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 22, 2009
    191
    16
    Terre Haute, IN
    Since you can't see it with the booster installed, my :twocents: would leave the barrel at 10.5". More velocity and probably a little less muzzle flash. While a slightly different animal, I am not impressed with the 5.45's performance out of an 8" barrel.
     

    Beowulf

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,881
    83
    Brownsburg
    Since you can't see it with the booster installed, my :twocents: would leave the barrel at 10.5". More velocity and probably a little less muzzle flash. While a slightly different animal, I am not impressed with the 5.45's performance out of an 8" barrel.

    I thought about that, but I want to be able to mount my Kestrel 556 can on it. I guess if I could figure out how to make the fake flash hider easy to take on and off, then I could just get the end of the 10" barrel threaded 1/2x28, though getting the fake flash hider to be easily put back on (and stay on, since it's pinned) might be more difficult than just swapping out the FSB to a proper threaded one.
     

    Beowulf

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,881
    83
    Brownsburg
    For those who are playing along at home, Arsenal apparently realized their original design was stupid and came out with the SLR106-58 and SLR106-59 variants, both having an actual threaded front sight block and a new muzzle break that can be removed (the different in the two models is plastic vs wood handguards).

    So, if you were thinking of going this route, those 2 pistols remove about 3/4s of the difficulty I'm looking at with this project (requiring only the installation of a stock after you got your stamp).

    I will say I'm pretty disappointed so far in the response from the various AK customization vendors I've contacted. Other than the one response from In Range saying they aren't taking new orders, I've received no reply from all the rest. None at all. I guess when dealing with firearms related (mostly small) businesses, you can't count on them to actually communicate effectively (or at least that's been my experience from 90% of the business I've tried to deal with).
     

    10ring

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 16, 2008
    623
    18
    Classified
    As I was told, initially the ATF would not allow them to import them unless the flash hider was pinned and welded. I don't blame Arsenal for this.

    And if you tried to send e-mail to Chris Butler you will be waiting a while for a reply. I would call him...
     

    Beowulf

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,881
    83
    Brownsburg
    As I was told, initially the ATF would not allow them to import them unless the flash hider was pinned and welded. I don't blame Arsenal for this.

    And if you tried to send e-mail to Chris Butler you will be waiting a while for a reply. I would call him...

    Okay, I'll try to break off some time to call them... though why they list an e-mail if they aren't going to check it is beyond me.
     

    Beowulf

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,881
    83
    Brownsburg
    Got responses from In Range, Firing Line, and AK USA.

    So here' s the breakdown:

    1. In Range - not taking new project orders currently

    2. Firing Line - $375 plus $35 shipping (and I provide parts)

    3. Iron Curtain Creations - no reply yet

    4. AK USA - $550 plus I provide parts.

    The real rub here is that damn front sight block. I can't seem to find one to save my life and they are apparently infinitely backordered. So, I can proceed with just the stock install SBR conversion and worry about the FSB and proper muzzle break down the road, or I can try to find another pistol that only needs a stock and build from that as other people have suggested. I guess it depends on how important the ability install a suppressor is to me. I do have a 556 can in process, but I don't know if the actually proper barrel lenght (8") lends itself to suppression and Huntertown says that 11.5" is the minimum recommended barrel length for their can.
     
    Last edited:

    Beowulf

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,881
    83
    Brownsburg
    Okay, while the actual Bulgarian gas blocks are apparently currently made of unobtanium, does anyone know if I could use a substitute gas block?

    I found these AK-105 gas blocks here:

    AK-105 style FRONT SIGHT- GAS BLOCK BASE | AA-OK

    And they look pretty darn close:

    ak027.jpg

    But obviously, close isn't good enough. Anyone have enough AK build experience to be able to tell if you could use the AK-105 gas block on an Arsenal 106u?
     

    engineerpower

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Jun 1, 2008
    585
    18
    State of Boone
    Always be wary of AA-OK, they're somewhat known for selling airsoft components without pointing them out as such. I built a Bulgarian krink piecemeal from a Rommanian AKM kit, and used one of the Bulgarian-style FSB/GB combos they sold at the time (couldn't find Krink kits back then). I found it lacking the gas port and requiring a particular front sight drum they also sold. The block itself seemed pretty soft but was weldable, so I rolled with it to see if it would work. I've fired a handful test rounds and it goes "bang", so we'll see...

    If you're looking for historic accuracy, then no, a 105 GB won't be appropriate on a 106. Fitment will be off a little too since the gas chambers are different lengths, but that's not a huge deal.

    Here are your options for using a 105 FSB:

    1) Mount the FSB to fit your gas tube, weld the gas port (if it's in the wrong spot) redrill port, pin FSB.
    2) Mount FSB to cover the gas port, trim the gas chamber to fit your tube and reprofile.

    What I would recommend, however, is keep your current FSB and thread your barrel for 14x1 LH. Then thread on the 24x1LH adapter and voila, you have your desired end result. Weld or silver-solder it on for a permanent mount, and you're good to go!
     
    Top Bottom