Need recommendations on a shotgun

[sbnewsom]

I belong to Marion County Fish and Game. I know that on Thursday nigths, they have Trap shooting.

First of all, what is the difference between Trap and Skeet?

Anyway, I do not have a shotgun. I would like to buy a 12 gauge in the near future. I am not looking for a high end one. Just something that will blast them out of the sky.

I would like to keep it less than 500 bucks. Anyone have any recommendations?

 

[Archbishop]

Gosh. For $500 you could buy either a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500. These would probably be the two main ones out there. Neither one should set you back more than $350.00 Start a thread on which is better and you'll have em coming out of the wood works. Like asking which is better Chevy or Ford.
From my very limited understanding, Trap is when the machine throws the clay pigeon up and you shoot them. Skeet is multiple machines throwing clays up from different positions to be shot. A quick Google search will probably give you plenty of info on this.

 

[sbnewsom]

HA yeah. I bet that's like posting a thread that says which is better? Glock or XD? That debate never dies

 

[msquared]

Ill throw in a curve, pick up a benelli nova or super nova. Both in that price range. I was very impressed how smooth these are. Compared to the remington or m500 it was easy for me to make the decision to get the benelli.

Best advice, go handle them, see what feels good to you.

 

[Carrion]

If I were just going to shoot trap with it I'd go look for a used single shot with a decent length barrel and a mod to full choke. You will only load one shell at a time regardless of the action type.

You should be able to find a Winchester 37 or similar for well under your budget.

 

[Barry in IN]

I shot trap for a little while, and don't know much but but might keep you from repeating some of my mistakes.

I won't even begin to get into naming specific guns.

First, I would be careful to not get a gun that is too light. This is due to recoil. Yes, you will only be shooting "trap loads", but you may shoot a few boxes in the course of the night and the recoil effects add up. These guys all have strong opinions on what brand of shell or what reload recipe is best, and a lot of it centers around how the load recoils.
Weight can be your friend in trap.

And it's not just your shoulder. Depending on how the stock fits you, you may feel it a lot in your cheek from the comb of the stock coming back and up. Weight helps here too.

Trap is about follow through on the swing. Most misses are from stopping the swing and shooting behind the target.
This is why you see long barrels in trap- because it gets the weight out front which will keep your swing going even if you try to stop.
You can also just add weight to the front end instead of going with a long barrel. Anything from specially made devices to taping a big bolt to the barrel can help.
I think a longer barrel is the better approach, but it may be easier to add weight. I would try to get a shotgun with a barrel of at least 28" though.

You usually see tight chokes in trap guns. Trap is a relatively long range game, at least compared to Skeet. There are a zillion variations, but in Standard Trap, you stand 16 yards behind the trap house from which the targets are launched. By the time you swing onto the target and fire, it may have traveled another 16 yards, making it 32 yards away when you shoot. Some get on it faster, and some slower.
I would shoot at paper to check the pattern at 32 yards, at least until you can shoot a while and see how slow or fast you can get on the target and shoot.
So you want a fairly tight choke, but you can overdo it.
Personally, I think many people use too tight a choke in Standard Trap. I did.
With today's one-piece plastic wads and better control over shotgun bore manufacturing, gun/ammo combinations shoot tighter patterns than they did decades ago when "full choke was the rule". Don't hesitate to try a Modified choke tube at the 16 yard line, or an Improved Mod if you get one.

For most people, the trap gun should shoot high. This is because the target comes out of the trap house on a rising course. Instead of trying to lead a rising target, which would cause you to cover it with your gun barrel- People concern themselves with the left or right flight direction and fire when the bead(s) touch the bottom of the target than and let the high point of impact handle the rise.
But I said "most" people. I swung through the target as I fired, so I would often shoot over the target with a gun stocked for Trap. I did better with a field gun, which shot more to the point of aim.
I hate to add to your decision-making by telling you that, but I want you to klnow that if you can't find or afford a "trap gun", you might be just as well without it. If not, you can either build up the stock later to make the gun point higher, add an adjustable buttplate, or replace the stock.

I would encourage you to learn the range procedure. They get moving through a round pretty smoothly, and having to stop to explain the procedures slows everyone down. They are understanding oif a new shooter, but anything you can know beforehand will help.
I'm sure a search can tell you more, but the basics are:
There are five shooting positions, or "stations" arranged in a semi-circle behind the trap house. One person stands on each station.
They will usually start at the far left station, where that person calls for a target and shoots.
Then it is the person to his/her right's turn.
This continues until all five shooters have shot, then it starts back over at the far left.
After doing this five times- that's five shots from each station- the shooters "rotate". They each move over to the right one station. the shooter on the far right walks behind them to the far left station, and will be the lead off shooter.
Again, five shots are taken this way, then everyone rotates again.
Five shots are taken from each of the five stations, for 25 shots in a "round".

Some other things to know are that you load and fire only one shell at a time (in standard trap, not doubles).
Don't close the action until it's your turn to shoot. Leave the action empty and open all other times too.
Some sort of bag on your belt to hold a box of shells is a wonderful thing and beats leaving the box on the ground and bending over to get a shell 25 timnes (WalMart and places have them fairly cheap).

When you walk out on the field to shoot, you may have to take what station is left over, but I would suggest claiming the center station to start on if you can.
You do not want to be the shooter on the far left and be the one starting off the round if you are a first-timer. If your squad realizes you are, they shouldn't let you start there, but they may not know it.
Also, starting in the middle gives you two shooters to your right that you can watch when it's time to rotate. Not that it's complicated to move, but you will have plenty on your mind already.
And finally, the middle station kind of splits the target direction up evenly. The target will fly out at random within X number of degrees (I forget how many), and it comes out of the traphouse within that same arc regardless of where you stand...but it looks different from each station. If you are standing on the center station, you are looking down the center of that arc. You can hold center and have an equal chance with it going any direction. But as you move away from the center station, your view is different so the target's direction of travel changes- for example: on the far right, the target will travel anywhere from almost straightaway to a hard left-to-right crosssing direction. Those crossing targets are hard for many people, so it's best to work up to them your first time and get five or ten shots under your belt first.

There is a lot more, and I will post it if I think of it.
But then, too much at one time isn't helpful either.

 

[SamW]

Oh boy, this is my specialty. Barry had a very informative post for you. To the rest of the posters, I would say their advice is fine if you are only going to shoot trap.

However, if you want to be more than a one-game'd snob (You will meet a lot of older gentlemen who ONLY shoot one or the other), you shouldn't limit yourself with a pump.

A Remington 1100 is a great place to start. Get one with a Rem-choke barrel of at least 28" (the receiver is longer on a semi vs. an O/U). The standard in skeet barrels used to be shot, light field guns w/ 26" barrels. The Pros are now using 32's for skeet and 34's for trap.

The 1100 is upgradable. Longer barrels, forend weights, actions jobs, release triggers, etc, etc. You will never fundamentally outgrow it, although your tastes may change.

For some more cash, you could step up to a Beretta auto-loader. The 391 is what I use as my backup/int'l skeet gun. Absolutely flawless design, great ergonomics, etc.

But, you can pick up a used 1100 cheap, buy a few cheap o-rings and throw them in your shooting bag and be good to go. If you ever feel like it, you can get back out of it close to what you put in. You can also put a slug barrel on it for deer, or get a custom stock set and turn it into a real hum-dinger.

Now when you start shooting Sporting Clays, you will want to move to an O/U style firearm, as different shots will mandate 2 different choke selections.

For now, don't worry about chokes. We used to practice with skeet chokes and turkey chokes... A good shooter will put bb's on the bird no matter what. There are lots and lots of drills to help you improve your game. I shot competitively in college and high school.

The difference between the two games is best described by Google.

Work on your fundamentals. Body position and hold-points are going to be your biggest hurdles to begin with. Once you get a taste of shooting moving targets, everything else will take a back seat.

 

[jrich2125]

Can't go wrong with a 870. They have been around for years and have many options. I own both the Mossberg 500 and 870. In my opinion the 870 is the better gun hands down.

 

[tsbolton]

You will need a o/u or auto if you are going to be shooting sporting clays. I like the benelli line but will set you back more than $500. Great sport to get into tho. Have fun

 

[Jack Ryan]

I belong to Marion County Fish and Game. I know that on Thursday nigths, they have Trap shooting.

First of all, what is the difference between Trap and Skeet?

Anyway, I do not have a shotgun. I would like to buy a 12 gauge in the near future. I am not looking for a high end one. Just something that will blast them out of the sky.

I would like to keep it less than 500 bucks. Anyone have any recommendations?

I recomend you go out there and watch them shoot both sports a couple times before you buy ANYTHING. Go see a sporting clays course while you are at it and then come back and ask that question again.

JFI, I noticed an awesome bargain on a Remington O/U in the paper last Sunday. I think it was at Dick's. $1999 list shotgun for $999.

 

[sloughfoot]

I recomend you go out there and watch them shoot both sports a couple times before you buy ANYTHING. Go see a sporting clays course while you are at it and then come back and ask that question again.

JFI, I noticed an awesome bargain on a Remington O/U in the paper last Sunday. I think it was at Dick's. $1999 list shotgun for $999.

Right on. You go there on match day, let everyone know that you are a newb willing to learn, and you won't believe how many shotguns are thrown at you to try, sometimes complete with ammo.

Hell, bring donuts, you will be everyones friend immediately.....

This is actually true for any of the shooting sports. Don't buy anything until you have attended several matches and made some friends who can guide you. They will also know of appropriate guns and equipment available, both used and new.

 

[Zoub]

Now when you start shooting Sporting Clays, you will want to move to an O/U style firearm, as different shots will mandate 2 different choke selections.

Really? Don't tell my GF that. She tears it up just fine with a Beretta 303 and anyone who sees her shoot assumes she has been doing it for years, not months. Maybe the fact she uses a 20 gauge instead of 12 impresses them too?

Under $500: Pump I would only look at a used Wingmaster or Winchester Model 12. 26 to 28" vent rib barrel. No need for a chamber over 2 3/4". That is true for all things except long range pass shooting AKA Goose and Duck hunting.

Maybe find a used 1100, even better but harder to find would be a Beretta 303.

There were some great guns at the last 1500.

Don't buy until you have shot it. Benelli Nova is a good gun also but a bit long for some shooters.

Better clubs/ranges rent guns so you can try a few types that way as well.

Since you are a member of Marion County, come to FNS and talk shotguns. I am not a member but I keep saying I am going to hit the club on a Thursday night for some trap. I often run shotgun at FNS.

 

[RelicHound]

lots of options out there for under $500 in the shotgun world. for skeet I prefer an O/U..they are just seem to "swing" easier. Mossberg makes a nice O/U you can get at wally world for under $500{I think its called the silver reserve?}
maybe go to the range with a couple boxes of good shells{I like winchester AA 7.5 shot for both trap and skeet} and ask to try some different shotguns...most people are more than willing to let ya fire there shotgun if ya have your own ammo.

 

[Zoub]

HA yeah. I bet that's like posting a thread that says which is better? Glock or XD? That debate never dies

Only in HD discussions, in sporting circles no one uses Mossberg.

Which brings to light why I tell people buy a used Remington Wingmaster, over a new Express. There is a reason why a new Wingmaster is so expensive. Used ones are exceptional values.

 

[zoglog]

i have a silver reserve 12ga and there is a 20 ga forsale in the classifieds. i have not had a problem with it and shot close to 900 rounds. solid gun, good price pm w/ any questions!

 

[DHolder]

I recomend the O/U option. Unless you are deer hunting, in which an O/U is not allowed, the O/U is the better option with two chokes. That being said, I saw an O/U at Plainfield Shooing Supply 11 /02 for around the money your talking. Don

 

[RelicHound]

I recomend the O/U option. Unless you are deer hunting, in which an O/U is not allowed, the O/U is the better option with two chokes. That being said, I saw an O/U at Plainfield Shooing Supply 11 /02 for around the money your talking. Don

you can deer hunt with an O/U...I think you are thinking about the O/U combo rifle/shotguns..you cant deer hunt with those unless it the rilfe is a legal cal.{.357,.44 etc etc}

 

[SamW]

Really? Don't tell my GF that. She tears it up just fine with a Beretta 303 and anyone who sees her shoot assumes she has been doing it for years, not months. Maybe the fact she uses a 20 gauge instead of 12 impresses them too?

That's all well and good at the local shoot-em-up club, but when you start competing, there are going to be stations where you are simply at an overhwelming disadvantage having one choke.

ETA: At the National Colligate championships a few years back, we had a station where the was a short midi crosser, presenting only it's side about 10 feet out, perpendicular to the station house, with a 10 foot shot window... So close you could have broom-handled it. It was paired with a simo. bateau crosser about 50 yards out and 30 yards up. Yes, you could smack the close target with a full choke, but it'd be like hitting it with a rifle bullet at that distance. And you needed every bit of choke and load to reach that far target with about 30 feet of lead on it.


That's great that your g/f is doing so well. Sometimes, the advantage of reduced recoil of the 20ga. means more hits for a smaller, more recoil prone shooter than the advantager of having more pellets in a 12 ga.

But, I will tell you this: In the upper eschelons of competition in Sporting Clays, there simply aren't people using 20ga. in anything other than subgage classes. People modify their guns until they can tame the recoil, either through mechanical devices, custom fit, weight, etc.

Using a pump will put you at a great, great disadvantage for skeet, and especially for Sporting Clays.

Going to the range is great advice. Tell the guys you're looking to buy your first shotgun for trap/skeet and I'm sure they'd be willing to let you pop off a few FACTORY rounds.

The Mossberg and cheaper Remington offerings are field guns. They're light. They can be modified.... adding shot to the stock, etc, but they're still field guns. You're better off with the 1100.

 

[Zoub]

That's all well and good at the local shoot-em-up club, but when you start competing, there are going to be stations where you are simply at an overhwelming disadvantage having one choke.

Sounds like I was shooting clays before you were even born. OP is not a Comp shooter or he would not even need to ask for advice, now would he? The fact he has to ask on the internet is even worse, because that means he has no one close to him to answer the question.

If he ends up a true clays shooter he will end up with more shotguns or a better one for it. But for now he needs one under $500 that can do a lot.

O/U's under $500 are POS, you know that, right? Many here may disagree, but those who know, know. Which is why quality used guns are a great value.

You find with kids they do many things with guns that they are "not supposed to be able to do." That is because their head is not filled with crap. The gun is not an excuse, just a tool. A kid goes in the field and takes 3 quail with a pump .410 from one covery rise or three rabbits from one brush pile. A couple ducks at 40 yards. He is there to hunt, kill and eat, not debate gauge, he uses what he is handed..................I still have that model 42.

You give up very little when using a 20 over a 12. Physics don't lie, only shooters do. Especially gamers. The best tool is the brain, study ballistics and your gun and you can overcome any shot within reason. Every year I shoot more and more 20 gauge. On the courses and in the real world (hunting). I don't shoot much past 40-50 yards.

Choke is choke, we all know how that works and plenty of pros I know use semi-auto over an O/U. The O/U is losing ground in all arenas.

The simple fact is the majority of clays courses across the country can be shot using IC and that includes high end courses. But you know that. Focusing on a 50 yard passing shot and "gaming" is a waste of time for a beginner, you should know that too.

 

[Zoub]

That's great that your g/f is doing so well. Sometimes, the advantage of reduced recoil of the 20ga. means more hits for a smaller, more recoil prone shooter than the advantager of having more pellets in a 12 ga.

She is 5'10" and very athletic. Great with AR's, .45's, 12 gauge and any gun she handles. Recoil is a word she never uses in a conversation so it must be a non issue for her?

20 gauge is good for her due to a terrible injury suffered to her weakhand forearm. Lighter weight gun. So I taught her ballistics first and then handed her the 20.

Recoil was never the issue. Don't assume you know the answers.