Need help fighting anti-gun crowd--I need some numbers...

[Regular Guy]

It's getting frustrating trying to talk with with the anti gun people. They don't know what they are talking about, and have no plans about just how to go about eliminating guns, other than shouting "We gotta do it!". I sent an excellent article ( The Case for More Guns (And More Gun Control) - Jeffrey Goldberg - The Atlantic ) to a friend that is advocating gun control. It lays out the facts and the reality of guns in America; like it or not, they are here to stay.

Her only response is, "There's too many guns. We need to ban automatic weapons now!!!". She either did not bother to read the article, or can't think of a response that would appear to make her "win" the argument.

Her and others think banning guns and having a buyback program like Australia did a few years ago would work here. I'm trying to find out how many AR-15's are owned in the U.S. right now; I've searched the net, but can't pin down a reliable number. My figure was about 4 million, but I read on some forums where it was thought to be 10 million, maybe more.

I would like to thow that number in their faces along with a fair market value of a buyback that the government (that is, we taxpayers) would have to spend. I thought to go low--maybe $500-$700 each.

And that's not counting handguns or the other semi auto rifles--SKS, AK's, etc. The dollar amount would be staggering. Even the most die hard liberal would hesitate to vote for such a plan.

Do any of you have a somewhat accurate AR-15 ownership number and a source for it?

Thanks!

 

[SERparacord]

Stop beating your head against the wall.

 

[ZX-14R]

Save the breath, call your senators and congressmen and women instead. Sign petitions, donate to the NRA, and quit trying to win the hearts and minds of absolute ignorant morons.

 

[SmokinSigs357]

Here are some numbers for ya;

186 killed in the Oklahoma City bombing. Of those, 3 pregnant women and 19 toddlers in day care. Killer used a rental truck and fertilizer. No firearms.

Nearly 3000 killed in 9/11/01. Killers used box cutters and airplane tickets. No firearms.

 

[Regular Guy]

Stop beating your head against the wall.

I thought that very thing before I posted this--this is going to be my last attempt, and I don't really believe it will do any good. But I want to make one last try...

 

[SERparacord]

Stats and catch phrases will not help you keep your weapons.

 

[ghuns]

Do any of you have a somewhat accurate AR-15 ownership number and a source for it?

Nope. I was wondering this as well though. Gotta be in the millions, though 10 sounds high.

 

[Chkline]

They will never get it, nor do they want to understand. Why can a logical person not understand that when you ban or limit a particular gun that the only people that will be affected are the law abiding people? Criminals will always find a way if there is a need. They will also not follow the posted signs and abide by the limits placed on where it is legal to posses a weapon or gun, so again, only the law abiding person is punished...

 

[686 Shooter]

I once wrote to NRA asking if they knew of any studies that have been done showing the number of jobs that would be affected as a result of a gun ban, after two attempts to get an answer I gave up. I took that as a polite way of saying "mind your own business"

 

[SSGSAD]

Tell them to read, More Guns, Less Crime .....

 

[Jack Burton]

I don't bother to discuss it with people unless they are willing to say upfront that they are willing to change their mind on the issue if they get persuasive information. If I get an negative answer to that question then I don't even discuss it.

 

[worddoer]

From my experience...facts do not matter. They are basing their comments entirely on emotions. They just want to feel better / safer regardless how false it is.

Which...as a side note... Isn't it interesting that they are so willing to give up someone else's rights. I wonder how they would react if someone else was so willing to give up one of the rights that they commonly and daily enjoy...freedom of speach...freedom to assemble...Anyway...

There are a few that are willing to have an honest debate. Here are some things I have used that have worked...but not with everyone. But just some idea's to help.

Most will say if we ban guns, then there would be no guns for the criminals to buy or steal. And when I point out the "criminals...by definition...do not follow the law...so what makes you think that they will follow this gun law when they freely break all other laws" argument. They slow down, but they don't stop. I then use the following example...

"Cocaine is illegal in every part of the United States. Yet, if you know where to go, you can buy it or steal it in every state in this land. Millions of people do every year. So we can see that banning an item does not keep criminals from accessing or using it."

"Again, human and child trafficking is illegal in every part of the United States. Yet, up to 20,000 children and adults are taken advantage of each year in the United States alone. There are many parts of the United States that offer this despicable trade. And even though it is illegal, it still happens."

Then I say to this person "If we cannot stop drugs and if we cannot even stop human trafficking...what makes us think we will stop illegal guns. Therefore, since it is a fact that criminals will always have guns, we must and should arm law abiding citizens as protection against evil doers. It's our only effective protection."

Sometimes I will throw this quote in from Col. Jeff Cooper. I have it saved as my desktop on my laptop. I believe that someone else posted the picture here in INGO before I found it. However, I do replace "rifle" with "gun" when I quote it to someone. It seems to hit home better to those I debate with.

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of it's own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes. But there are more good men than evil. And while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

 

[CitizenX]

You can lead a stupid horse to the punch bowl but you can't make it drink the kool-aid... or something like that...

anyway... I don't think it really matters how many ARs or any firearms there are anyway.. if you don't have a fork to eat your stew... grab a spoon.

 

[Lakeman62]

My Uncle was a Captain on the County Sheriff Dept and served for 30 plus years, he told me not to depend on the police to protect you and your family, they will not get to your home in time to help you. Arm yourself

 

[Samplejs]

While I agree you aren't going to get anything but frustrated fighting irrational fear with facts, I figured you should like to know your guess was right on.

Assault Weapons - The Classification, Definitions and Laws Regarding Assault Weapons

Estimates run from 4 to 10 million

 

[88E30M50]

Liberals live on emotion, not logic. No amount of stats will make a dent in the well of emotion they are running on. Any logic that stands in contrast to their emotional argument will not be heard. Even if you do push a stat into their little mind, they will dismiss it as propaganda of the gun lobby.

 

[partyboy6686]

I learned a interesting fact this weekend when hearing idiots debate gun control. And how it should be harder for people to purchase guns and ammo.

Cars kill nearly 40,000 people a year in the US. Thats 4 times as much as guns kill a year. So why dont they make it harder to purchase a car?

 

[Lep36]

If facts mattered, we would have a new pres...
To answer your question, here are a few, she was on fire today:

Gun Control Isn’t The Answer. Here’s Why | The Dana Show

The castle Rock vs. Gonzales was interesting to say the least...

 

[MTC]

It's getting frustrating trying to talk with with the anti gun people. They don't know what they are talking about ...

"I feel your pain."

...and have no plans about just how to go about eliminating guns, other than shouting "We gotta do it!".

Just for kicks, ask them their specific proposals. Listen, then repeat it back to them, explaining in detail the soviet-style police state it will take to even hope to implement their ideas, and watch them come completely unhinged.

Her only response is, "There's too many guns. We need to ban automatic weapons now!!!".

Unless you have the time and patience, there is no sense in addressing that level of stupidity and ignorance on gun laws.

Regarding the rest, and instead of being drawn into any other arguments on "studies" or "statistics", consider the following:

Are your rights negotiable?

Are they to be bought, sold, sacrificed, infringed or compromised in the interest of "public safety"?

My rights, your rights, our rights, are not contingent upon the actions of violent criminals.




ETA: to

 

[TWS]

37,000 people in America are killed by vehicles every year, of that how many children? How many family's lost in the twin towers, Oklahoma city? Negligence? Child abuse? It will never end! I have 2 a.R's... probably have over 1000.00 invested in both, and have many friends with 3 or 4. There are more logical ways to go about this crisis, don't ask me what they are, I'm not a numbers man or have any theories. But setting the nation back millions, devastating the economy in lost business, and unemployment, and kids are still dying every year in amazing numbers not even related to firearms? That is not a " step in the right direction" you can't just be "anti" whenever its convenient, its all or nothing. I bet that woman loves having a car? Yet vehicles kill so many.