Man Shot After Pursuit

[ryanbr]

Man fatally shot by police was well known in Argos community


For all of those who question why police act they way they do on traffic stops with people who have firearms in thier posession this is why. Notice if you read the article the deceased was licensed to carry. This is why I have stressed before that everyone has bad days and just because you have an LTCH doesnt mean you wont do bad things.

 

[indykid]

If result prove suspicions, they will show what we all already know, that alcohol and firearms don't mix. Add in alcohol and driving a motor vehicle, and really bad things happen.

Sad situation regardless, just glad none of the police were hurt.

 

[canav844]

How many does it take in IN for DUI to be a felony?

Back in 1998 he was arrested for a DUI, and in 2004 for a DUI again, carrying a hand gun without a license and speeding. Recently in 2010 he was charged for resisting law enforcement and disorderly conduct.

2 DUIs and resisting make me a little surprised that his LTCH was valid; though the way that's worded it's entirely possible not a single conviction on the list.

 

[TomN]

My county represented. I'm so proud.

 

[sepe]

How many does it take in IN for DUI to be a felony?

2 DUIs and resisting make me a little surprised that his LTCH was valid; though the way that's worded it's entirely possible not a single conviction on the list.

Wouldn't the carrying a handgun without a license (along with his other arrests/charges) be a little bit of a surprise with them saying he was currently valid?

My county represented. I'm so proud.

Not the first and won't be the last. The other chases that ended in death weren't via bullet though.

 

[1nthechmber]

One of the comments on the original story was,"why did the cops chase him if they knew who he was,they could have just met him at home"?.....because cops in small towns are very bored.....that's why.

 

[canav844]

Wouldn't the carrying a handgun without a license (along with his other arrests/charges) be a little bit of a surprise with them saying he was currently valid?

Some people are slow on the uptake, there's a time factor, but based on this thread
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ing_a_ltch_after_non_violent_misdemeanor.html
Even ISP says it's entirely possible to get an LTCH after a carrying without a permit charge.

 

[Tim Enyeart]

When you have two DUIs within a five year period, the second is a felony. Resisting arrest is usually a misdemeanor and it wouldn't be uncommon to have long delays between arrest and conviction. Waving a gun in front of police is a bad idea legal or not.

 

[Bunnykid68]

He was not waving a gun he was firing the gun at police according to the article.

 

[NDhunter]

One of the comments on the original story was,"why did the cops chase him if they knew who he was,they could have just met him at home"?.....because cops in small towns are very bored.....that's why.

Please tell me you're not serious?

Maybe because their PC was suspicion of drunk driving, and who knows what he might have hit on his way 'home'? He didn't steal bubble gum, he led officers on a high-speed pursuit and then proceeded to shoot at them.

 

[mydoghasfleas]

Please tell me you're not serious?

Maybe because their PC was suspicion of drunk driving, and who knows what he might have hit on his way 'home'? He didn't steal bubble gum, he led officers on a high-speed pursuit and then proceeded to shoot at them.

The high speed chase with bullets flying sounds much safer.

 

[phylodog]

Certainly wouldn't want cops to chase bad guys. I'm sure their time would be better spent writing tickets.

 

[sepe]

Some people are slow on the uptake, there's a time factor, but based on this thread
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ing_a_ltch_after_non_violent_misdemeanor.html
Even ISP says it's entirely possible to get an LTCH after a carrying without a permit charge.

Yeah, I get that there are qualifiers and degrees of charges that change things but being that his 2nd DUI in 5 years should have been a felony and he had previous firearms related charges, that should have drawn much more interest while getting/renewing his LTCH than someone that had 1 DUI or another non-violent misdemeanor.

I've really got no comment about the guy other than he made a horrible decision and now his family and the officers involved have to pay (I know Argos barely has much going on so the officers I've met, I know they haven't been involved in anything similar and the Marshall County guys...quite a few are younger with no military experience and not much really happens here) for quite some time.

 

[GunSlinger]

I don't recall right at this moment who it is that has as thier sig line "play stupid games...win stupid prizes" but that does seem to apply here.

 

[ryanbr]

my point of this thread was for people to realize that things do slip thru the cracks. you wouldnt think with his background that he should have had an LTCH. However he did. This is why officers rely on and standby with officer saftey when dealing with ANYONE with firearms. I hope this horrible incident opens some peoples eyes to why this is. I am sure there will be plenty on here who still have plenty of excuses as to why officer saftey is not valid but if this doeas help one person to see then great! Officer saftey isnt just something dreamed up for officers to be a prick to people. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mydoghasfleas]

my point of this thread was for people to realize that things do slip thru the cracks. you wouldnt think with his background that he should have had an LTCH. However he did. This is why officers rely on and standby with officer saftey when dealing with ANYONE with firearms. I hope this horrible incident opens some peoples eyes to why this is. "I am sure there will be plenty on here who still have plenty of excuses as to why officer saftey is not valid" .

What does this have to do with LTCH?
Are you talking about this thread?.. https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...efense/192719-pulled_over_while_carrying.html

 

[smspears592]

I am glad to see that everyone doesn't hate the police. Most places you look that isn't the case.

 

[ryanbr]

What does this have to do with LTCH?
Are you talking about this thread?.. https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...efense/192719-pulled_over_while_carrying.html

What this has to do with LTCH is the countless post on this forum bashing law enforcement for thier actions when encountering individuals who have firearms on thier possesion. so many on here seem to think that just becauses they have thier LTCH that they are fine and there should be no precautions on the officers part because of that. This whole incident just backs up the fact that just because someone has thier LTCH it doesnt mean that they cant or wont do stupid things, so it reenforces the need for officer saftey. Given that the majority of people with thier LTCH are good to go, an officer on a traffic stop doesnt have a crystal ball to know who the bad guys are or arent. If this thread would have been different where the officer made a stop and disarmed an individual with an LTCH people would be jumping all over the officer. This has went kinda as I thought, a valid example of the opposite and not much to be said. Just my

 

[lrahm]

Most all departments have pursuit policies. How long, how far, how fast and the reason for the pursuit. After the guy shot at the officer, all bets were off.

There are just some people that will go to any length not to go to jail (not a joke). They will do anything and say they will do anything. It is fairly common.

 

[mydoghasfleas]

What this has to do with LTCH is the countless post on this forum bashing law enforcement for thier actions when encountering individuals who have firearms on thier possesion. so many on here seem to think that just becauses they have thier LTCH that they are fine and there should be no precautions on the officers part because of that. This whole incident just backs up the fact that just because someone has thier LTCH it doesnt mean that they cant or wont do stupid things, so it reenforces the need for officer saftey. Given that the majority of people with thier LTCH are good to go, an officer on a traffic stop doesnt have a crystal ball to know who the bad guys are or arent. If this thread would have been different where the officer made a stop and disarmed an individual with an LTCH people would be jumping all over the officer. This has went kinda as I thought, a valid example of the opposite and not much to be said. Just my

NO! I have not seen anyone "bash" an officer for for their actions when encountering a LTCH holder. What I do see is people bashing (alleged SOP) procedures which violate the LTCH holders rights and makes the entire encounter more dangerous for everyone including the officer. The thread in which I saw this was linked to in my previous post. Please go to that thread and let everyone there know where they are wrong.

A valid example of what, that some LTCH holders arent always upstanding citizens? I dont think that was ever in question really. And driving drunk, fleeing an officer and shooting at an officer sort of changes things dont you think? The safest place for my gun is in my holster. After showing a LTCH, why should I have to take it out of that holster and hand it to an officer? Where is the logic in that? That is the most dangerous thing for both the officer, myself, and everyone around to do. When people are stoped they get nervous, not the best time to handle a loaded firearm and is a recipie for an AD. I understand your thinking but what if it were what you fear and they were intent on hurting the officer? What if the person you stop has bad intentions? You would have made it easier for them. You would have given them an advantage in that they get to put their hand on the gun and start to move it your direction. If they "sweep" you with it you cant fire off a round. If they did not have bad intentions, then you needlesly endangered everyone around including you, the person carrying, passengers in the car, all bystanders within 100 or so yards by playing hot potato with a loaded gun and a stranger.