Machine Guns...Somebody's Lying

[modelflyer2003]

Please explain this, because someone is lying.

From Don's Guns: Don's Guns and Galleries, Inc. - Machine Guns and Silencers

Yes! Machine Guns & Silencers are legal and the following are in stock. Don's has been class 3 for 36 years. The only difference in you buying a Machine Gun or Silencer is:

1. If you qualify for a Pistol and you are a U.S. Citizen, you qualify for a Machine Gun or Silencer.

2. There is a Federal Tax involved for both. The tax for both Machine Guns and Silencers is $200.00 and must be paid when you purchase. You cannot take possession until the government sends your receipt back. ( You can come in and shoot your purchase on our range while you wait). This is a one-time only tax.


Compare that with this: http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch5.html
IC 35-47-5-8
Machine gun
Sec. 8. A person who owns or possesses a machine gun commits a Class C felony.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.104-2000, SEC.3; P.L.123-2002, SEC.43.

 

[Cwood]

What you did not read was this section.....

IC 35-47-5-10
Applicability of statutes relating to machine guns
Sec. 10. The provisions of section 8 or 9 of this chapter shall not be construed to apply to any of the following:
(1) Members of the military or naval forces of the United States, National Guard of Indiana, or Indiana State Guard, when on duty or practicing.
(2) Machine guns kept for display as relics and which are rendered harmless and not usable.
(3) Any of the law enforcement officers of this state or the United States while acting in the furtherance of their duties.
(4) Persons lawfully engaged in the display, testing, or use of fireworks.
(5) Agencies of state government.
(6) Persons permitted by law to engage in the business of manufacturing, assembling, conducting research on, or testing machine guns, airplanes, tanks, armored vehicles, or ordnance equipment or supplies while acting within the scope of such business.
(7) Persons possessing, or having applied to possess, machine guns under applicable United States statutes. Such machine guns must be transferred as provided in this article.
8) Persons lawfully engaged in the manufacture, transportation, distribution, use or possession of any material, substance, or device for the sole purpose of industrial, agricultural, mining, construction, educational, or any other lawful use.(
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.104-2000, SEC.5; P.L.123-2002, SEC.45.

 

[modelflyer2003]

I read that, but Don makes it seem like anyone who has a LTCH can apply for a machine gun license with the feds, but I am just not reading that in the statute. The closest may be #7, but it is as clear as mud. I certainly don't have a need or desire to possess one (too expensive to buy and way too expensive to shoot), and I had my fill in the service. I will stick to my pistols, but I happen to see that on Don's website and was scratching my head. I knew a guy in New Mexico I served with who owned one, but I figured that was a New Mexico allowance.

 

[tv1217]

Click

 

[38special]

Any other lawful use in #8

 

[jedi]

In our great state of Indiana the only thing we can not own (legally) are short barrel shotguns. Otherwise everything else is ok (legally) including full auto weapons (aka machine guns), grenade launchers, short barrel rifles, silencers, etc...

You can even have a Class-A thermal detonator like this:

in case you need to take out

(Jabba The Hutt)

 

[Bill of Rights]

Absolutely lawful, modelflyer. The process is a fair measure longer and more costly than it is for a handgun, and by that I mean that it's not measured in minutes but in months and not in hundreds but in thousands of dollars, but if you have the cash and jump through all the hoops, yes, you or any other law-abiding, peaceable citizen may lawfully own a short-barreled rifle, a suppressor, or a fully-automatic firearm. In some states, you may also own a short barreled shotgun as well, but IN law specifically excludes those. There are some firearms that lawfully qualify as exemptions even to that, however.

Do note that I am not addressing "destructive devices" in the above, as it is my understanding that some/all of even those are lawful provided one jumps through all the same hoops and pays the $200 one-time tax stamp on an item s/he is just going to blow up. Personally, I can't justify spending $200 over and above the cost of the item just to blow up the item in a lawful manner.

What I can't understand is how any of the above can be reconciled with Amendment II, US Constitution: A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

and​

Article I, Section 32, Indiana State Constitution: The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.

No ifs, ands, or buts.
"...the right...shall not be infringed."
"...shall have a right..."

Those seem like pretty clear, unequivocal statements to me.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[DRob]

Heaven help us................

I didn't know there were any "Don-believers" still around! Media persons excluded, of course.

 

[M107]

You can own a short barreled shotgun in the state of indiana if you get an AWO permit like the Serbu Super Shorty

 

[sporter]

I read that, but Don makes it seem like anyone who has a LTCH can apply for a machine gun license with the feds, but I am just not reading that in the statute.

If you can legally on a modern firearm in the United States then you meet the legal criteria to own a Machine Gun or other Title 2 (class 3 aka) firearm.

You just have to go through another couple of hoops:
1. Get LEO signoff or form LLC, Trust, or Corporation if you don't want to go through the signoff process.
2. Pay $200 tax
3. Have firearm engraved if you are creating it (short barreled rifle)
4. Notarized forms
5. Provide fingerprint card if going through LEO

Really Dons website is pretty well dead on but leaves out some of the details.

There is no "license" unless you are becoming a dealer in title 2 arms

Every NFA firearm requires a one time non transferable $200 tax.

 

[sporter]

You can own a short barreled shotgun in the state of indiana if you get an AWO permit like the Serbu Super Shorty

An AWO is not a SBS per se.

The Serbu has no butt stock so it is not what federal law considers a SBS.

The Serbu fits into "any other weapons" category.

 

[esrice]

You can own a short barreled shotgun in the state of indiana if you get an AWO permit like the Serbu Super Shorty

Not exactly.

A short barreled shotgun and AOW are two different things.

Short barreled shotgun = shotgun with a stock, where the barrel is less than 18" long.

AOW (Serbu in this case) is different because it does not have a stock, and it has NEVER had a stock.

SBS = illegal in Indiana
AOW = legal in Indiana

I'm paraphrasing like crazy here. bigcraig and/or VUPDblue can be of more assistance.

 

[samot]

If you can legally on a modern firearm in the United States then you meet the legal criteria to own a Machine Gun or other Title 2 (class 3 aka) firearm.

You just have to go through another couple of hoops:
1. Get LEO signoff or form LLC, Trust, or Corporation if you don't want to go through the signoff process.
2. Pay $200 tax
3. Have firearm engraved if you are creating it (short barreled rifle)
4. Notarized forms
5. Provide fingerprint card if going through LEO

Really Dons website is pretty well dead on but leaves out some of the details.

There is no "license" unless you are becoming a dealer in title 2 arms

Every NFA firearm requires a one time non transferable $200 tax.

What forms need to be "notarized" ????

 

[Cwood]

There is no form that needs to be notarized.


Also, if you buy a AOW from a dealer the transfer fee is $5.

 

[modelflyer2003]

I didn't know there were any "Don-believers" still around! Media persons excluded, of course.

I guess I don't know what this means. I am new to the forum.

 

[Cwood]

Don is like a shady used car dealer. No one listens to him unless you are the media and then he is his the spokesman for the gun industry.

 

[MTC]

What I can't understand is how any of the above can be reconciled with Amendment II, US Constitution: A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

It can't. Only rationalized.

and​

Article I, Section 32, Indiana State Constitution: The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.

No ifs, ands, or buts.
"...the right...shall not be infringed."
"...shall have a right..."

Those seem like pretty clear, unequivocal statements to me.

They are.

 

[samot]

There is no form that needs to be notarize

Didnt think so

 

[WabashMX5]

It can't. Only rationalized.

But... but... but the Bradys say it's just "common sense"!

 

[VUPDblue]

Not exactly.

A short barreled shotgun and AOW are two different things.

Short barreled shotgun = shotgun with a stock, where the barrel is less than 18" long.

AOW (Serbu in this case) is different because it does not have a stock, and it has NEVER had a stock.

SBS = illegal in Indiana
AOW = legal in Indiana

I'm paraphrasing like crazy here. bigcraig and/or VUPDblue can be of more assistance.

The Super Shorty is an AOW because it doesn't meet the definition of a Shotgun in the first place. It was not "made from a shotgun" because the definition of a shotgun says that it is "...a shoulder fired weapon". The Serbu type AOWs are made from virgin receivers that never had stocks, thus were never "shotguns" by definition.