LTCH and Bi-Polar Disorder or other mental/ behavioral disorders.

[redpitbull44]

I don't know if this has been brought up before. A dude I know has his LTCH. He is a good guy, but confided in me that he looses his temper sometimes. Usually with his kids. He said he thinks he needs meds, and may be bi-polar. Said he is depressed because his relationship with his wife and kids is suffering. Said he never feels like "shooting anybody", but just gets mad and looses it for a few minutes. Wants something to mellow him out, but is scared to talk to an actual doctor for fear of losing his LTCH and ability to protect his family away from his home. I know his family is his world, just like most of us out there. What I am seeing is a cry for help, and since he doesn't read INGO, I figure it's a safe place for me to get advice on how to help him out without fear of embarrassing him.

He asked me if a psych eval, mental/ behavioral diagnosis and possible long term anti-depressant prescription would cause him to loose his LTCH. I could not give him a straight answer, so I come to you folks. This is all the info I have. So, formally, my questions to you are thus:

Will being evaluated for a mental or behavioral disorder be grounds for revocation of LTCH?

Will being diagnosed with a mental or behavioral disorder be grounds for revocation of LTCH?

Will being prescribed anti-depressants (or similar) be grounds for revocation of LTCH?


Thank you for you time, and please keep your personal opinions out of this guys. I am looking for FACTS. Too often people's opinions cloud the truth.

 

[handgun]

Well...

How could the police find out. Its not like there is a reg. That i am aware of for such ills. No requirement to tell the police hey this.guy has bi polar what ever to the police. Unless he is truely hurting say a kid. Admits to sexually abusimg someone. Or expresses exteme desire to commit a crime.

I would advise him to seek medical attention and not share such with the doctor..

While the courts could supenia his medical records if needed but why would they ever need to..

Get help.. the carry permit should be the least of his concerns... also such illness can be later classified as in remission...

 

[redpitbull44]

Well...

How could the police find out. Its not like there is a reg. That i am aware of for such ills. No requirement to tell the police hey this.guy has bi polar what ever to the police. Unless he is truely hurting say a kid. Admits to sexually abusimg someone. Or expresses exteme desire to commit a crime.

I would advise him to seek medical attention and not share such with the doctor..

While the courts could supenia his medical records if needed but why would they ever need to..

Get help.. the carry permit should be the least of his concerns... also such illness can be later classified as in remission...

I know one thing I would be worried about if I were diagnosed with a disorder that predisposed me to anger or violence is a situation where I legitimately needed to use my firearm for protection, but because of a diagnosis as having such, I would be drawn in a negative light in court as a result of such a condition. The only thing worse than NOT being able to defend yourself is being accused of doing so wrongfully.

 

[indiucky]

Both Clans of the Hatfields and McCoys had similiar conditions and they kept their guns and apparently carried everywhere. I am not trying to make light of the situation but the fact that the guy is asking these questions says alot about his character and that he seems to be a pretty level headed.

 

[Vic_Mackey]

I don't mention it to many people, especially on here for slight fear of being looked at funny, but I have documented PTSD from overseas and I have a LTCH and several guns. When I went in for my evali made no mention of weapons, and vice versa with my license renewal. The one time I felt I was losing it I took all my guns to my fathers house. Found out later that they had changed my meds so many times I was a mess. Took about a month but I kicked the meds and just worked on talking everything that bugged me out.

My only advice to your friends is to do the same if he feels he is slipping. Remove your guns and talk. I hope he figures it out, I know the fear of possibly being disarmed is enough to flare up an anxiety attack :/

 

[the1kidd03]

I'm not familiar with WHAT exactly or HOW it works, but my sister used to work for the state in the medical field. I know that there is some form/level of reporting illnesses to state authorities. Their office had to be informed when out of country visitors come in state with various diseases such as Indy Car drivers. How it works on the mental side, IDK. BUT, I'm sure there is some sort of protocol for informing the state of potential mental issues which are deemed serious enough. I highly doubt that bi-polar is serious enough though.

 

[cwillour]

I could be very wrong, but it was my understanding that a bevarioral health diagnosis/treatment itself is only relevant if inpatient (committed by order or self-admit) or IOP (intensive outpatient) services become necessary.

 

[handgun]

Get help.first.. worry about the guns later... honestly.. how many people on here or ltch holder actually have had to shoot someone.

I am not saying that the possibility can not or will not or even shall not happen to your friend..

 

[the1kidd03]

Get help.first.. worry about the guns later... honestly.. how many people on here or ltch holder actually have had to shoot someone.

I am not saying that the possibility can not or will not or even shall not happen to your friend..

Not had to shoot in the civilian world. Most IME did not wish to push their luck once the gun is drawn/aimed, but that's not say that everyone will get that lucky.

 

[handgun]

Not had to shoot in the civilian world. Most IME did not wish to push their luck once the gun is drawn/aimed, but that's not say that everyone will get that lucky.

I hear yeah.

 

[cwillour]

It sounds like he may be a good fit for a PHD or LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) visit. Also, if his work has an EAP he may be able to get one to three visits under that without the provider having to give a diagnosis (not all EAPs allow this, so he would want to check first) which would let him get some professional feedback on his actual condition before deciding how to proceed.

 

[redpitbull44]

Get help.first.. worry about the guns later... honestly.. how many people on here or ltch holder actually have had to shoot someone.

I am not saying that the possibility can not or will not or even shall not happen to your friend..

Statistically I'm the wrong guy to talk to about THAT subject.

 

[Kagnew]

Does this mean that Obama wouldn't be able to get an Indiana LTCH?

 

[Ted]

Will being evaluated for a mental or behavioral disorder be grounds for revocation of LTCH?

Will being diagnosed with a mental or behavioral disorder be grounds for revocation of LTCH?

Will being prescribed anti-depressants (or similar) be grounds for revocation of LTCH?

Form 4473

f. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?

Indiana Application for Handgun License:

Have you ever been treated for psychiatric health care or an emotional or mental illness?
a. Year of recent treatment
b. Submit documentation/recommendation from treating mental health professional or treatment center.

The correct answer: It depends.

 

[GIJEW]

It sounds like he may be a good fit for a PHD or LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) visit. Also, if his work has an EAP he may be able to get one to three visits under that without the provider having to give a diagnosis (not all EAPs allow this, so he would want to check first) which would let him get some professional feedback on his actual condition before deciding how to proceed.

GREAT IDEA! Given that the LTCH questionaire asks about PSYCHIATRIC care/treatment, going to a LCSW wouldn't disqualify you.

 

[daddymikey1975]

It sounds like he may be a good fit for a PHD or LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) visit. Also, if his work has an EAP he may be able to get one to three visits under that without the provider having to give a diagnosis (not all EAPs allow this, so he would want to check first) which would let him get some professional feedback on his actual condition before deciding how to proceed.

Technically, he doesn't "need" a diagnosis.

If he's feeling depressed, or having 'anxiety attacks' or what have you, he can go talk to a licensed counselor, or LCSW (as was mentioned already) and simply get on a 'treatment plan' that can help with these issues/feelings. I was talking to a gentleman (LCSW) for a while about some depression issues and other stuff. He determined (not diagnosed) that some meds would help 'even things out' for me so that i wasn't in the dumps all the time, or having anxiety attacks or whatever. He couldn't prescribe me any meds, but he made a couple recommendations that I subsequently went to my family doctor and talked to her about. She wrote me a prescription with the understanding that I was "under the supervision of" my LCSW and he was monitoring my condition along w/ therapy.

As a technicality, I have never been diagnosed with anything, nor have I been adjudicated w/ anything. So you see, as long as you're friend is careful about how things are handled, he should be ok as far as his LTCH goes.

And, I second the motion that mental health is paramount and should take priority to LTCH.

Good luck

 

[sparkyfender]

My ex-girlfriend was bipolar and medicated. Putting it mildly......... But never committed.

She had to get a letter from her shrink stating she was not a threat to herself or others and submit it to the State Police. Bingo! Lifetime LTCH. Caution: this process did take several months to wind its way to completion............

 

[EvilBlackGun]

The State Police have additional questions ...

... above and beyond the 4473. DHS has given them newer forms for application for license. This is the form from your local LEO. I believe it is the Line 4 that reiterates EVER having had ANY counseling. Including your mustering-out final interview as one of those. Heads-up. Best not to lie. EBG

The correct answer: It depends.

 

[Ted]

... above and beyond the 4473. DHS has given them newer forms for application for license. This is the form from your local LEO. I believe it is the Line 4 that reiterates EVER having had ANY counseling. Including your mustering-out final interview as one of those. Heads-up. Best not to lie. EBG

Then by all means, please provide a bit more detail of these 'newer forms'.

 

[cwillour]

Technically, he doesn't "need" a diagnosis.

If he (or you, for that matter) are looking for insurance to cover the visits and or meds, almost all insurance plans require a diagnosis of a relevant condition (even if the diagnosis is simply general anxiety) prior to paying the claim. In fact, a diagnosis code is a mandatory field in most implementations of the 837P (the electronic format used by providers to submit claims for payment) and is a technical requirement of the new 5010 version that is being implemented by many providers this year, IIRC.

This is not as harsh as it may seem at first as the insurance companies have a responsibility to ensure they are not paying for unnecessary treatments and without at least some diagnosis, they would have to be far more intrusive in order to even attempt to review claims for medical necessity.

If you are paying out of pocket and not having claims filed with the insurance company, of course, this does not necessarily apply. (Note: paying a deductible or copayment means the insurance company must still receive and process the claim.)

FWIW, a General Practitioners are not the folks I would see for proper Med management. There is simply too many variables and cross-relationships for them to keep track of in the amount of time they have to research the various families of medication.