Louisville Burglary Victim Charged with Murder

[DoggyDaddy]

I read a book once about a society where everyone was watched all of the time. 1984 I think it was called. I don't want to live there. As noted above, if I was on this jury the guy's get a pass from me. If you don't break into peoples homes to steal you don't have to worry about angry homeowners shooting you. Seems pretty simple.

I don't want to live there either. The hairstyles were awful.

 

[mkgr22]

I don't want to live there either. The hairstyles were awful.

Is that your yearbook photo, DD?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Your experiences and recollections may be different from mine, but I cannot remember encountering a single incident of an officer being unjustly fired (with the possible exception of forgetting reading about an example somewhere that was not sufficiently relevant to recall).

I can't think of a single incident of a welder being unjustly fired. Since I know very few welders, don't work with welders, haven't tried to find out anything about welders being fired, and understand that not every personnel decision made is reported in the media...what conclusions can I draw from this?

I would not work in law enforcement without merit protection. Write the wrong person a ticket and don't "fix" it, bust some VIP's kid for dope, donate to the wrong guy's election campaign, etc. etc. Pass.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I can't think of a single incident of a welder being unjustly fired. Since I know very few welders, don't work with welders, haven't tried to find out anything about welders being fired, and understand that not every personnel decision made is reported in the media...what conclusions can I draw from this?

I would not work in law enforcement without merit protection. Write the wrong person a ticket and don't "fix" it, bust some VIP's kid for dope, donate to the wrong guy's election campaign, etc. etc. Pass.

I would agree with you so far as what you posted. The problem is with the officers who should be fired, criminally charged, or worse.

1. Officers who write tickets based on fictional violations.
2. Officers who are selling dope themselves.
3. Officers who use their position to extort sex.
4. Officers who refuse to address flagrant violations happening literally at their feet and later lie about it.

These are just the examples that come to mind from experience. The first happened to a friend in my absence. The remainder have struck home personally or with immediate family members. It seems that the only three ways to deal with these people are to accept that they are your masters and can do WTF-ever they want, waiting for their retirement, or by personally administering some 'or worse' which opens an entire new set of problems.

 

[BE Mike]

I would agree with you so far as what you posted. The problem is with the officers who should be fired, criminally charged, or worse.

1. Officers who write tickets based on fictional violations.
2. Officers who are selling dope themselves.
3. Officers who use their position to extort sex.
4. Officers who refuse to address flagrant violations happening literally at their feet and later lie about it.

These are just the examples that come to mind from experience. The first happened to a friend in my absence. The remainder have struck home personally or with immediate family members. It seems that the only three ways to deal with these people are to accept that they are your masters and can do WTF-ever they want, waiting for their retirement, or by personally administering some 'or worse' which opens an entire new set of problems.

So, what are you doing about all these bad cops? If you have evidence, you should turn it over to the authorities for investigation.

 

[IndyDave1776]

So, what are you doing about all these bad cops? If you have evidence, you should turn it over to the authorities for investigation.

We have hit the limit on what I am going to discuss on the internet.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I would agree with you so far as what you posted. The problem is with the officers who should be fired, criminally charged, or worse.

1. Officers who write tickets based on fictional violations.
2. Officers who are selling dope themselves.
3. Officers who use their position to extort sex.
4. Officers who refuse to address flagrant violations happening literally at their feet and later lie about it.

These are just the examples that come to mind from experience. The first happened to a friend in my absence. The remainder have struck home personally or with immediate family members. It seems that the only three ways to deal with these people are to accept that they are your masters and can do WTF-ever they want, waiting for their retirement, or by personally administering some 'or worse' which opens an entire new set of problems.

That's a completely different thing than being unjustly fired. I will say I've seen IMPD fire people for things that never made the news, and criminal charges have been filed when warranted. They've also failed to file sometimes for the same reasons any case can not be filed, uncooperative victims, evidence issues, etc.

However, again cops get fired for things no one else would be fired for. We're high visibility, like it or not. A doctor screws up and kills someone, and its just part of the job and we all understand that someone who makes life and death decisions multiple times will eventually get it wrong. A cop does, and it's national news. I'm not saying that those mistakes should be brushed under the rug or the victims not remembered and families made whole as best as can be done, but cops get treated like every mistake is an intentional act and often part of some overarching narrative. Doctors who miss a diagnosis or screw up in surgery, they made a mistake. Cops were evil and should have their pension funds raided to pay for it. Right, INGO?

 

[IndyDave1776]

That's a completely different thing than being unjustly fired. I will say I've seen IMPD fire people for things that never made the news, and criminal charges have been filed when warranted. They've also failed to file sometimes for the same reasons any case can not be filed, uncooperative victims, evidence issues, etc.

However, again cops get fired for things no one else would be fired for. We're high visibility, like it or not. A doctor screws up and kills someone, and its just part of the job and we all understand that someone who makes life and death decisions multiple times will eventually get it wrong. A cop does, and it's national news. I'm not saying that those mistakes should be brushed under the rug or the victims not remembered and families made whole as best as can be done, but cops get treated like every mistake is an intentional act and often part of some overarching narrative. Doctors who miss a diagnosis or screw up in surgery, they made a mistake. Cops were evil and should have their pension funds raided to pay for it. Right, INGO?

You brought the other half of the problem. Especially without a merit system, not voting right and so forth could see you to the door. Officer Wilson should have been commended not condemned in the court of media/public opinion, but that is not an official response. My point is that I have never seen any meaningful punishment for even the most egregious of offenses--offenses which would land anyone else in a cage.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You brought the other half of the problem. Especially without a merit system, not voting right and so forth could see you to the door. Officer Wilson should have been commended not condemned in the court of media/public opinion, but that is not an official response. My point is that I have never seen any meaningful punishment for even the most egregious of offenses--offenses which would land anyone else in a cage.

IMPD officer found guilty of robbery, official misconduct | Fox 59 They tried him twice after a hung jury the first time.

Well, now you have.

And an example of overcharging because he's a cop:
IMPD officer maintains innocence of attempted murder, domestic b - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Attempted murder for firing a blank cartridge while I can't get attempted murder on mopes who shoot people with real bullet multiple times? What he did was certainly criminal and worthy of being charged, but attempted murder? Right.

 

[IndyDave1776]

IMPD officer found guilty of robbery, official misconduct | Fox 59 They tried him twice after a hung jury the first time.

Well, now you have.

And an example of overcharging because he's a cop:
IMPD officer maintains innocence of attempted murder, domestic b - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Attempted murder for firing a blank cartridge while I can't get attempted murder on mopes who shoot people with real bullet multiple times? What he did was certainly criminal and worthy of being charged, but attempted murder? Right.

Fair enough. Especially the second example is unacceptable. This reminds me of a time when I worked for the Department of Correction when I caught an inmate smoking in a non-smoking area and wrote it up under the (class A) rule violation for 'unauthorized fire' so that a lieutenant I didn't like would have to sit through yet another hearing and assign some extra duty for the smoking violation, only this bogus attempted murder charge is far more serious and life-altering.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Fair enough. Especially the second example is unacceptable. This reminds me of a time when I worked for the Department of Correction when I caught an inmate smoking in a non-smoking area and wrote it up under the (class A) rule violation for 'unauthorized fire' so that a lieutenant I didn't like would have to sit through yet another hearing and assign some extra duty for the smoking violation, only this bogus attempted murder charge is far more serious and life-altering.

I think the second instance comes pretty close to attempted murder. Blanks can kill, and a drunk guy pointing a gun at a person's face and pulling the trigger is no bueno. If she had died, I'd say a murder charge is warranted.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I think the second instance comes pretty close to attempted murder. Blanks can kill, and a drunk guy pointing a gun at a person's face and pulling the trigger is no bueno. If she had died, I'd say a murder charge is warranted.

At minimum, intent should be required. I fail to see how intent is established. I could go along with something in the 'criminal recklessness' class as may be available in the Indiana Code, but I could not see an attempted murder on a non-officer so I can't agree with it in a case where the actions does not meet a significant standard for the charge.

 

[Kutnupe14]

At minimum, intent should be required. I fail to see how intent is established. I could go along with something in the 'criminal recklessness' class as may be available in the Indiana Code, but I could not see an attempted murder on a non-officer so I can't agree with it in a case where the actions does not meet a significant standard for the charge.

If you repeatedly abuse a person, and then one day your abuse kills that person, intended or not, you are a murderer.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If you repeatedly abuse a person, and then one day your abuse kills that person, intended or not, you are a murderer.

My understanding is that intent is the line separating murder from voluntary manslaughter.

In any event, while one would expect a higher standard from law enforcement, I don't expect perfection or punishments which are beyond the limitations of the offense actually committed. The burr under my saddle comes from the instances of a badge granting a person a de facto exemption from any pretense of following the law without any punishment unless someone colors outside the lines and deals with it, well, privately.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I think the second instance comes pretty close to attempted murder. Blanks can kill, and a drunk guy pointing a gun at a person's face and pulling the trigger is no bueno. If she had died, I'd say a murder charge is warranted.

Neat. Then apply that same standard when people who aren't cops shoot people with real bullets. The point is uneven treatment by the prosecutors office.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Neat. Then apply that same standard when people who aren't cops shoot people with real bullets. The point is uneven treatment by the prosecutors office.

Exactly the point. There should be either one law or no law. It seems that we have taken opposite directions around the circle based on opposite personal experiences on the matter and ended up at the same place!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Exactly the point. There should be either one law or no law. It seems that we have taken opposite directions around the circle based on opposite personal experiences on the matter and ended up at the same place!

Kid has issues. He should have never have been a cop in the first place.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Kid has issues. He should have never have been a cop in the first place.

I will defer to your judgment on the matter. Still, in my reckoning, he should be treated within the same boundaries as anyone else doing likewise potentially with his profession considered as an aggravating circumstance since he should know better and was paid to act better, but not to, for example, have an attempted murder when anyone else would have faced a lesser charge.

 

[Libertarian01]

Neat. Then apply that same standard when people who aren't cops shoot people with real bullets. The point is uneven treatment by the prosecutors office.

I agree that this appears to be a big problem. So how can we in the public fix it?

Doug

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I agree that this appears to be a big problem. So how can we in the public fix it?

Doug

I have no idea. There's no simple answer or it would have already been done.