Louisville Burglary Victim Charged with Murder

[Woobie]

If I shot someone a block from my house who was running away from me, I wouldn't be able to live with myself, depending on the specifics. I will shoot to protect from threat to life or serious bodily injury. If you broke into my house, and still inside, I'm going to reasonably assume you are there to do your worst to me or my family. If you're running away from me with my laptop, you're welcome. Have a nice day. If you're running away from me with one of my guns, you're at the mercy of whether I think you're about to use it against someone or not. If you're running away from me with one of my kids, you're having a near death experience, as in you're about to have a full death experience.

 

[HoughMade]

This falls under the definition of curtilage. I know cause I read it on the internet.

Doug

I applaud the invocation of "curtilage" at this distance- I mean this as a compliment: that's lawyer thinking!

 

[nakinate]

Maybe we ALL need body cams?

We should pass a law that all gun owners must wear a body cam at all times. They must buy the cam themselves and all video will be store on government hard drives that are paid for by new taxes on guns and ammo!

 

[IndyDave1776]

Tennessee Vs Garner put an end to that. How's that been working out for us?

How is that working out? You mean aside from the surplus of criminals we now have in circulation?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

How is that working out? You mean aside from the surplus of criminals we now have in circulation?

Sure. Plus we've crept up from you can't shoot them to you can't chase them in many jurisdictions. It's the cops' fault if you crash into someone as you flee, you know. Penalties for fleeing are light to non-existent. There's no legal repercussions. Why NOT run?

 

[Hookeye]

Eh, dead thief.
It is a good thing.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I wouldn't have chased him in this situation but if I was on the jury he would be going home if I had anything to do with it.

+1

 

[AA&E]

I applaud the invocation of "curtilage" at this distance- I mean this as a compliment: that's lawyer thinking!

This statement being made by a lawyer, I am trying to decide if this comment is more or less insulting.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Sure. Plus we've crept up from you can't shoot them to you can't chase them in many jurisdictions. It's the cops' fault if you crash into someone as you flee, you know. Penalties for fleeing are light to non-existent. There's no legal repercussions. Why NOT run?

I understand the frustration on both counts, but the latter is a product of cop stupidity. One example that stands out in my memory was the state trooper that killed a nonparticipant who was crossing US 40 from a road with limited visibility. No lights, no horns, and hit her car hard enough to knock the front bumper of his Caprice within a foot of the firewall. Especially given that she was driving a car which was not especially substantial, I can't imagine how fast he must have been going to absorb that kind of damage. I happened to drive past shortly after the incident. The condition of his car was unbelievable. The other had already been removed. This, all over someone else speeding, and other similar incidents applicable to various departments are the root of some departments not allowing pursuit even had the target been Osama bin-Laden.

 

[Libertarian01]

I applaud the invocation of "curtilage" at this distance- I mean this as a compliment: that's lawyer thinking!

This statement being made by a lawyer, I am trying to decide if this comment is more or less insulting.

I take it entirely as a compliment! I have wanted to study law and am waiting for IIT to become accredited, otherwise no go.

Doug

 

[BE Mike]

I understand the frustration on both counts, but the latter is a product of cop stupidity. One example that stands out in my memory was the state trooper that killed a nonparticipant who was crossing US 40 from a road with limited visibility. No lights, no horns, and hit her car hard enough to knock the front bumper of his Caprice within a foot of the firewall. Especially given that she was driving a car which was not especially substantial, I can't imagine how fast he must have been going to absorb that kind of damage. I happened to drive past shortly after the incident. The condition of his car was unbelievable. The other had already been removed. This, all over someone else speeding, and other similar incidents applicable to various departments are the root of some departments not allowing pursuit even had the target been Osama bin-Laden.

The accident you cite is indeed tragic and I'm not sure what you mean by crossing a road with limited visibility, but certainly far more officers are killed by vehicle related accidents than by firearms.National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I understand the frustration on both counts, but the latter is a product of cop stupidity. One example that stands out in my memory was the state trooper that killed a nonparticipant who was crossing US 40 from a road with limited visibility. No lights, no horns, and hit her car hard enough to knock the front bumper of his Caprice within a foot of the firewall. Especially given that she was driving a car which was not especially substantial, I can't imagine how fast he must have been going to absorb that kind of damage. I happened to drive past shortly after the incident. The condition of his car was unbelievable. The other had already been removed. This, all over someone else speeding, and other similar incidents applicable to various departments are the root of some departments not allowing pursuit even had the target been Osama bin-Laden.

There is NOTHING that is 100%. If you let people carry guns for self defense, they are sometimes going to shoot the wrong people. They are sometimes going to shoot themselves. They are sometimes going to leave them where their children can find them and the children will accidentally kill themselves. All of that sucks. Because of gun owner stupidity. So I wonder which results in more innocents dying, police chases or civilian gun ownership? Be careful setting the bar by only looking at the negatives or by demanding 100% success.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Police: Man flees, shoots himself after shoplifting incident at Beech Grove Walmart | Fox 59

Cut out the middle man, I suppose.

 

[Dead Duck]

Police: Man flees, shoots himself after shoplifting incident at Beech Grove Walmart | Fox 59

Cut out the middle man, I suppose.

That's quite a mess.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

That's quite a mess.

I just got a call and I know why the guy shot himself. I'll let the name be made public and whatnot first, but he had more going on then the theft.

That plays back into chasing someone who flees. They may flee a traffic stop where speeding was the initial reason, but that doesn't mean they are fleeing to get away from a mere speeding ticket.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The accident you cite is indeed tragic and I'm not sure what you mean by crossing a road with limited visibility, but certainly far more officers are killed by vehicle related accidents than by firearms.National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths

Sometimes posting in a hurry just doesn't come out clear! Visibility was limited by the geography, specifically a curve in which there is sufficient distance to see oncoming traffic for a safe crossing when the oncoming traffic is not travelling fast enough to knock the front end of a Caprice flat.

There is NOTHING that is 100%. If you let people carry guns for self defense, they are sometimes going to shoot the wrong people. They are sometimes going to shoot themselves. They are sometimes going to leave them where their children can find them and the children will accidentally kill themselves. All of that sucks. Because of gun owner stupidity. So I wonder which results in more innocents dying, police chases or civilian gun ownership? Be careful setting the bar by only looking at the negatives or by demanding 100% success.

You make a perfectly reasonable argument. My problem here is that for everyone else in society, being declared a professional grants you a higher standard to which you are expected to live with expectations that don't necessarily fall within the laws of physics. When government employees do things like this, they go long enough being able to shrug, say 'oops', and walk away that the rest of us get really fed up and rightfully so. If individuals were held accountable for doing things so impossibly stupid, you would not get the demand at a later time to tie everyone's hands behind their backs.

My brothers and I had to deal with a state audit and received more punitive action for not giving ourselves new pre-employment drug tests even though we were all employed in the company before we temporarily suspended operations than the aforementioned stupid motherf*cker got for killing an innocent through absolute stupidity on several levels. It really puts an extremely sour taste in one's mouth for public employees being able to say, 'oops' and walk away, and in that case get promoted.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

Another idiot with access to a gun. Lock him up.

We just cant afford to live in a society where bad people get whats coming to them - ESPECIALLY not that quickly! They need to be on the loose for a few days before coming to justice, so they can have opportunity to commit a few more crimes first - thugs got to make a living too! LOCK THIS GUY UP! HE'S A DANGER TO THE CRIMINAL CLASS!

The common man has no business fighting injustice - Only our glorious protectors and overlords have that right to dole out justice, and it is their responsibility alone to make our communities safer and our lives better! Us common folk should just breathe deep, and thank our lucky stars that the ruffians didn't kill us, and fill out a good police report like loyal little serfs!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I just got a call and I know why the guy shot himself. I'll let the name be made public and whatnot first, but he had more going on then the theft.

That plays back into chasing someone who flees. They may flee a traffic stop where speeding was the initial reason, but that doesn't mean they are fleeing to get away from a mere speeding ticket.

Ok, they've released his name now. Police identify man who shot himself after shoplifting incident at Beech Grove Walmart | Fox 59

The warrant stemmed from allegations he shot his landlord's brother over an argument about his upcoming eviction. Battery with a Deadly Weapon and the SVF in possession of a firearm. It will be interesting if his criminal history is made public, along with his average stay out of prison or jail after each release until his next arrest.

 

[BE Mike]

Sometimes posting in a hurry just doesn't come out clear! Visibility was limited by the geography, specifically a curve in which there is sufficient distance to see oncoming traffic for a safe crossing when the oncoming traffic is not travelling fast enough to knock the front end of a Caprice flat.



You make a perfectly reasonable argument. My problem here is that for everyone else in society, being declared a professional grants you a higher standard to which you are expected to live with expectations that don't necessarily fall within the laws of physics. When government employees do things like this, they go long enough being able to shrug, say 'oops', and walk away that the rest of us get really fed up and rightfully so. If individuals were held accountable for doing things so impossibly stupid, you would not get the demand at a later time to tie everyone's hands behind their backs.

My brothers and I had to deal with a state audit and received more punitive action for not giving ourselves new pre-employment drug tests even though we were all employed in the company before we temporarily suspended operations than the aforementioned stupid motherf*cker got for killing an innocent through absolute stupidity on several levels. It really puts an extremely sour taste in one's mouth for public employees being able to say, 'oops' and walk away, and in that case get promoted.

I could cite a lot of cases where an officer was fired for what many folks would consider trivial or excusable behavior where the punishment exceeded the infraction. Then there is this: An officer defends himself or herself, when attacked with overwhelming force and the officer is found justified by a jury and after scrutinizing by a Dept. of Justice investigation and is still harassed and threatened to the point where the officer feels compelled to give up his position and move his family. Life sure ain't fair. Citing specific instances doesn't really show anything but that. Name calling doesn't help either IMHO.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I could cite a lot of cases where an officer was fired for what many folks would consider trivial or excusable behavior where the punishment exceeded the infraction. Then there is this: An officer defends himself or herself, when attacked with overwhelming force and the officer is found justified by a jury and after scrutinizing by a Dept. of Justice investigation and is still harassed and threatened to the point where the officer feels compelled to give up his position and move his family. Life sure ain't fair. Citing specific instances doesn't really show anything but that. Name calling doesn't help either IMHO.

Your experiences and recollections may be different from mine, but I cannot remember encountering a single incident of an officer being unjustly fired (with the possible exception of forgetting reading about an example somewhere that was not sufficiently relevant to recall). You may get some mileage out of your comment about a 'specific instance' but just because I settled for the most egregious example, that doesn't make it the only one that comes to mind. Officer Wilson had the terrible misfortune of being objectively right while the DoJ was controlled by racially-driven criminal elements. This is a fine example of why criminals in public office should not be taken lightly.