Lessons learned

[jedi]

This weekend a few of us NWI INGO member's went camping with our sons and here is a bit of what I learned being a newbie camping.

1) Lanterns are best suit for not being moved around, use a small flashlight if you have to move around at night.
2) Duct tape is a godsend when you break a lantern to get it to work again (sort of).
3) A tent fan is a great idea to ensure you don't end up with condensation on the inside of the tent. It won't help much with keeping you cool but does move the air around. Bought this one (Coleman - Lighted Tent Fan - CPX? 6) for $32 and it was the BEST investment for this trip.
4) A simple foam mat feels oh so good at the end of the night when you are dead tired. Better than sleeping on the ground of the tent.
5) Camping is a miserable humid dirty experience but I would have it no other way. It makes you really appreciate the comforts of modern life once you get back home. (speaking as a suburbs person)
6) Baby wipes, Baby wipes, baby wipes... (Outhouse is something else!)
7) A vest with a zillion pockets is a keeper to ensure you have room for all your stuff on the go (wipes, flashlights, etc...)
8) Ear plugs at night = good sleep. They really help tune out all the animals and bug noises.
9) Father/Son time while camping is precisions even if it did rain, we were hot, sweating like pigs and dirty.
10) Water (even when warm) is the best thing on earth when it's hot and humid. All the cold pop, kool-aid, etc. in the world is meaningless. We had cold pop, cold kool-aid and yet we drank water the majority of the time while there.
11) The Zero Goal lighthouse lantern will charge a smartphone via it's USB port (Lighthouse Lantern | GOAL ZERO) PROVIDED the smartphone has at least some charge. If the phone is dead (0% battery) then the lantern just like the USB off a PC will NOT have enough 'juice' to jump start the phone. So make sure you don't get below 5% before you charge it otherwise it will not work.

 

[Wild Deuce]

I might as well chime in with what I learned from this trip. Sad to say, it wasn't my first time out and I still had to learn (re-learn?) some stuff the hard way ...


I was thinking about throwing on tie downs (for wind) on my Eureka tent when I first set it up. I delayed too long in making that decision. As soon as the storm hit and I heard the rush of wind, I wish I had done it. Lesson learned ... if you are thinking about it, do it. The thing that saved me was that the wind wasn't that bad in that spot and I had pounded all my stakes down to the ground.

I also was lazy and forgot to make sure that the tent footprint remained entirely under the tent (nothing visible around the edges). Being careless, I left about two inches sticking out from one side of the tent. This was enough to catch runoff rain from the tent and funnel it under the tent which led to my next discovery ...

I forgot to check the waterproofing on my tent before the trip. It has been in use for a couple years and several outings. The waterproofing has worn off and even though it has a "tub" bottom ... it leaked when combined with my footprint failure (mentioned above). Fortunately it only leaked where there was pressure applied and not the entire floor of the tent. I will need to apply a spray sealant ... I think. I only managed to stay dry because I was on a Therm-a-Rest sleeping pad. There was plenty of water under the pad in the morning though. There were no holes. It seemed that the water just permeated the material wherever there was pressure (that's why it was all under the sleeping pad).

I turned on my clip-on bug repellent fan and clipped it to my belt. It was just like ringing the dinner bell for the little skeeters. My legs were ate up. I told my wife about it when I returned and she suggested I write the corporate offices of SC Johnson to inform them of my experience ... complete with pictures of my legs and feet. Well, I pick up the package to look for the contact information and guess what falls out of the package? The repellent pack that I never inserted into clip-on fan unit! Lesson learned ... READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!

Also ... before someone chimes in about Jedi's earplugs. The camping was in a pretty secure group setting with an overnight watch posted.

 

[tv1217]

Last time I went camping, I forgot the poles and the next day we flipped a canoe. Had trouble getting the fire started too. Those wax and sawdust starters are awesome.

 

[melensdad]

This thread should be re-titled: WHY MOST PEOPLE WHO "BUG OUT" WILL DIE IN THE WOODS


The visual picture of WD in his big old shorts with his bug-bite induced polk-a-dot legs is priceless.

@ Jedi, buy a breathable tent, there will never be a condensation problem!

 

[lonehoosier]

I to went on this camping trip. Some of the thing that I notice was that bug spray does not stay on you when you are sweating like a pig. Like Wild Deuce said if you are thinking about doing something DO IT. The fan was a big help. That was my first time using one and I will never camp with out it. We brought four cold wraps to put around are necks and to wipe off the sweat. It basically looks like a towel that you would dry your car off. You just soak it in water and then store it in the cooler.

 

[melensdad]

I'd find it interesting to see how much gear you actually take with you. Just based on what little information is in your thread, it sounds like your camping site is not very mobile, unless you transport all the gear in a car to another site. Seems like you have a lot of stuff with you for a weekend.

Just curious, can you provide a gear list of every item you had with you on the trip? And then a rough weight of your total gear.

Obviously I'm looking at this from a "backpackers" perspective. And Camping and Backpacking are two very different things. Backpacking is pretty minimalist. Camping can span a very wide range of levels of comfort from just the necessities up to a Class A Motorcoach. But I'm curious if you could have actually carried your camp?



@lonehoosier, same question to you.



Honestly been a while since I went camping. I think my gear weighed in at about 50-55# total. That was sleeping, cooking, food, clothes, etc.

If I had to do it again, I'm sure I could shave another 10# off my pack by going with lighter weight products. That old TIMBERLAND tent by Eureka! would be the first thing I'd replace (actually its already gone, I just never replaced it since my wife has no desire to sleep in a tent anymoe, and since I have minimal desire to do the same). Its 9# by itself. For 3 season camping I'd love to buy a new Big Agnes Scout UL2 at less than 2# (including the footprint). Eliminate the heavy cotton clothes I used to wear hiking and replace them with the ulta-light "performance" synthetics that I hike in now, that would cut my clothing weight by 2/3rds. Switch to an alcohol stove from a backpackers butane caninster stove to shave more weight. Carrying in water is the biggest issue at 8# per gallon, but there are some very light weight purifiers.

 

[joe138]

Where did you camp or did I miss it?

 

[jedi]

@melensdad my tent is 14 years old and has been used 5 times so it's still new. No need in buying a new one yet.
Here is the list of the stuff I took and no we were not mobile at all. Took my 3 PINK wagon trips to take all the stuff back to the van.
We had help getting it all to the site with an ATV that had a wagon attached.

SHELTER
- Yoga matt for boots (entrance mat)
- Tent Coleman 8x8 dome
- Tarp 6x6 (for under tent)

BEDDING
- 2 blankets
- 2 travel pillows
- 2 Sleeping bags

KITCHEN
- 1g cooler with red drink
- 6g jerry water cans x 3
- 5g water cooler
- fire pit cooking sticks
- cooler (blue you know which one)
- cups
- grill
- grill utensils
- lighter
- paper towels
- plates
- popup garbage can
- propane 1lb x 2
- trash bags

CLOTHS (per person; 2 people)
- bandana
- boots
- hat
- laundry bag
- pants x 2
- rain gear
- sleeping cloths
- socks x 3
- t-shirts x 3
- underwear x 3

PERSONAL
- Baby wipes x 2 bags
- Deodorant
- Hand Sanitizer x 2
- Toilet Paper (4 pak)
- Toothbrush x 2
- Toothpaste
- Towel Large x 2
- Towel medium x 2
- Towel small x 2

MISC
- Batteries AA x 8
- Batteries DD x 8
- Bug Lantern
- Bug spray
- Camp Chairs x 2
- Ear Muffs
- Flashlight x 3
- Large lantern
- Safety glasses x 2
- small lantern
- solar lantern
- sunscreen
- whistle x 2

FOOD
- 1/2 loaf of bread
- 4 burgers
- 1 bag of chips
- 1 bag of cookies
- 1 pak hot dogs
- kecthup
- 1 bag marshmallows
- 12 pop cans
- 6 poptarts
- relish
- 6 metal water bottles

ENTERTAINMENT
- UNO Cards
- Battelship cards

PROTECTION
- 1911 with 4 mags
- .30 carbine with 7 mags

The majority of the stuff fit inside the 2 totes I take the the meet & shoots expect for
- duffle bag with cloths
- sleep bags in there own big bag (fits 2)
- 3 jerry cans
- coolers
- pink wagon (duh!)

 

[jedi]

Where did you camp or did I miss it?

The camping was an invite from WD's men's church group for father/son to spend time together (fish, swim, hike, BB gun shooting, sports, etc..) with a mix of religion sprinkled in (what does it mean to be a man, what should boys strive to do, etc..).

 

[Wild Deuce]

@ Melensdad ... this was clearly defined and clearly established from the beginning that it would be car camping. 100% the opposite of what we would do for back country camping. There was a lot of gear and equipment that would never even leave the house if we were hitting the trail. Other than the tent, I didn't use much of the equipment that I would use if I had to hike the gear in. We literally parked the vehicles and unloaded everything into a trailer that was pulled to the campsite (80 yards away) by an ATV. We can't really provide an honest "back country camping" assessment of the gear. We were just there for the event and for some it was just a good opportunity to get our "camping feet" wet.

Most of my "back country" type camping is done on the Appleseed circuit. I have stuck a tent on the ground and literally not left the area until three days later or gone to my car (except to move it). I can live out of my backpack for several days. If you really want to know what I use, let me know and I can dig up a list that I can PM. The last few times though I have "cheated" by heading out at least one evening for a hot meal.

@ Joe ... this was a church sponsored Men and Boys Camp Out. It was intended for fathers and sons. Prior to this event coming up, I sent out a feeler via the NWI MSG group to gauge interest in a camping event or training exercise. I received some responses. I followed up with a request for input to establish a time frame and received no responses. Based on the original responses, I extended an invite to this event (non-INGO and non-MSG affiliated but church based) for those that I was familiar with and that I knew had young kids (sons). The camp out was conducted on private property not too far from Jasper-Pulaski.

 

[melensdad]

Jedi, even tent camping/hiking on the Appalachian Trial I never took more than 3 liters of water (in 3 or 4 bottles).

Oh, and here is a stove you may want to consider making => The Cat Food Can Stove



@WD, yes, as you point out in your reply, and as I mentioned, there is a huge difference between CAMPING and BACKPACKING. But I would like to hear a list of what you used for CAMPING. And I'd love to see a list of your gear for BACKPACKING too.

 

[Wild Deuce]

This thread should be re-titled: WHY MOST PEOPLE WHO "BUG OUT" WILL DIE IN THE WOODS

This is why I camp now. Work out the kinks and reinforce the lessons that need to be learned before the proverbial stuff hits the proverbial fan. You are correct though ... still more to learn.

The visual picture of WD in his big old shorts with his bug-bite induced polk-a-dot legs is priceless.

You think the visual is priceless? ... you should feel the itching.

@ Jedi, buy a breathable tent, there will never be a condensation problem!

Breathable or not, I think nature will find a way to put your gear to the test some other way. I would be curious to know how a breathable tent would work in near freezing temps or just above freezing temps with precipitation. Are there tents marketed as "breathable" or is any high-quality, professional grade tent already expected to be "breathable?" I would like more information because if I can lose the 1 lb. fan, that would be awesome. However ...

When I was camping last Novemeber, we were setting up for the night and it was miserable. Temps were hovering right above freezing and there was a fog like drizzle that was relentless. Everything was getting soaked. It was dark when we set up camp but we managed to keep the inside of the tents dry. In the morning, some of the people that didn't have fans woke up with frost on their sleeping bags and on the inside of their tents (temps had finally dropped below freezing by morning). The inside of my tent was frost and moisture free. Was it my fan? ... or my tent?

 

[rgrimm01]

I always loved it when it rained while camping. We set up a huge tarp so everything stays dry except the tent and the tarp. Must setup the tent and let it dry prior to storage.

The bugs(cicadas and crickets), frogs, coyotes, raccoons and crackling fire is something of a lullaby and puts me right out.

We like the colemanesque air mattresses. Funny how they feel better than the bed at home when the alternative is the hard ground with that one root that you did not see when pitching the tent.

Flashlights or battery powered lanterns may be better, but there is something about the hiss of a dual fuel... And the added bonus of them being a bug zapper/bug toaster.

 

[Wild Deuce]

@WD, yes, as you point out in your reply, and as I mentioned, there is a huge difference between CAMPING and BACKPACKING. But I would like to hear a list of what you used for CAMPING. And I'd love to see a list of your gear for BACKPACKING too.

The camping list for this event is simple ... look at what Jedi and Lone brought. They agreed to cover all amenities.

However, JUST IN CASE ... I did pack two MRE's and two Mountain House meals as well as a Jet Boil Zip stove. I had 4 16oz. bottles of water for food prep if needed and two 1 gallon jugs for drinking and hygiene.

I'll send you a copy of my Appleseed gear list ... have to go dig it up (hopefully it wasn't on my last computer).

 

[bwframe]

Thanks for the lessons learned. Took some real humility to post this valuable info.

 

[melensdad]

Breathable or not, I think nature will find a way to put your gear to the test some other way. I would be curious to know how a breathable tent would work in near freezing temps or just above freezing temps with precipitation. Are there tents marketed as "breathable" or is any high-quality, professional grade tent already expected to be "breathable?" I would like more information because if I can lose the 1 lb. fan, that would be awesome. However ...

When I was camping last Novemeber, we were setting up for the night and it was miserable. Temps were hovering right above freezing and there was a fog like drizzle that was relentless. Everything was getting soaked. It was dark when we set up camp but we managed to keep the inside of the tents dry. In the morning, some of the people that didn't have fans woke up with frost on their sleeping bags and on the inside of their tents (temps had finally dropped below freezing by morning). The inside of my tent was frost and moisture free. Was it my fan? ... or my tent?

My first camping experiences were "Winter Survival" camping and we always used 3 season tents. The favored tent was the Eureka! Timberline tent. Light by standards of 30+ years ago when I took the course. Heavy as hell by today's standards. But that was a tent with a mesh top 2/3rds and waterproof bottom 1/3rd tub. I presume the new Eureka! Timberline is still the same design??? It has a fully waterproof fly over the top of it that extends well over the mesh so that the tent easily breathes.

Here is the tent I would buy today IF I were to tent camp again => https://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Tent/scoutul2

It is a traditional style tent, but uses 2 trekking poles (something that I have come to LOVE) for supports. Its not unlike the TIMBERLINE tent in shape, but very different in support system.


The JET BOIL style stove is what I used to use.

I always loved it when it rained while camping. We set up a huge tarp so everything stays dry except the tent and the tarp. Must setup the tent and let it dry prior to storage.

The bugs(cicadas and crickets), frogs, coyotes, raccoons and crackling fire is something of a lullaby and puts me right out...

DITTO.

Our house is surrounded by woods on 2.5 sides and we love to sleep with the windows open so we can hear the bugs chirping.

 

[Wild Deuce]

My first camping experiences were "Winter Survival" camping and we always used 3 season tents. The favored tent was the Eureka! Timberline tent. Light by standards of 30+ years ago when I took the course. Heavy as hell by today's standards. But that was a tent with a mesh top 2/3rds and waterproof bottom 1/3rd tub. I presume the new Eureka! Timberline is still the same design??? It has a fully waterproof fly over the top of it that extends well over the mesh so that the tent easily breathes.

Here is the tent I would buy today IF I were to tent camp again => https://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Tent/scoutul2

It is a traditional style tent, but uses 2 trekking poles (something that I have come to LOVE) for supports. Its not unlike the TIMBERLINE tent in shape, but very different in support system.

Ok that explains a lot. I suppose my Eureka tent design contributes to the moisture reduction. It is pretty much mesh on three sides with a vent on the wall side. I like the tent in your link because it uses your trekking poles for support. It's weight efficient. I wonder how it holds up in the wind.

The JET BOIL style stove is what I used to use.

That thing is wicked fast at boiling water. I love my JET BOIL but I would definitely go with something else for survival. Still undecided on a stove but I have plenty of fire starting gear stashed in all my packs ... until I decide on something.

 

[melensdad]

Ok that explains a lot. I suppose my Eureka tent design contributes to the moisture reduction. It is pretty much mesh on three sides with a vent on the wall side. I like the tent in your link because it uses your trekking poles for support. It's weight efficient. I wonder how it holds up in the wind.

I suppose it would depend on 2 things. How strong your Trekking Pole locking system is on your poles (mine are the strongest available) and how good your stakes hold in the ground. I found that it helps to have a couple different types of stakes for different types of ground conditions. But being the BACKPACKER magazine Editors Choice, my guess is that its a well tested system under a wide variety of conditions.

BY THE WAY . . . I've also learned that you never want to push a tent stake into the ground with your boot. It tends to disturb the ground and not give a secure hold. Better to pound them in with your boot heel (after removing your boot!).



FOUND THIS VIDEO:

Scout UL2 tent features - YouTube

That thing is wicked fast at boiling water. I love my JET BOIL but I would definitely go with something else for survival. Still undecided on a stove but I have plenty of fire starting gear stashed in all my packs ... until I decide on something.

I love that system except for the fuel. Not the easiest to find, nor the cheapest. Not very space efficient in a pack either, especially if you go out a week on a trail.

 

[melensdad]

I to went on this camping trip. Some of the thing that I notice was that bug spray does not stay on you when you are sweating like a pig. . .

DON'T WEAR COTTON when out hiking/packing/etc. You will still sweat in synthetics, but you won't be as uncomfortable. Go to Target and get some CHAMPION brand performance clothing that wicks away moisture and air dries. It actually acts like a 'swamp cooler' style air conditioner. The lovely Mrs Bob is using some of their tops while we hike and reports its pretty good stuff. I've not personally tried that brand (yet). But its very reasonably priced.

I'm testing some headbands from Ex-Officio. They have xilotol (sp?) in the fabric and it works (somehow) to keep you cooler. Eventually I'll add it to my Hadrian's Wall thread. I just want to make sure it holds up. They have clothing with the same thing. Darn expensive. Might not be worth it.

I'm also testing several different lightweight performance style LONG SLEEVE shirts that wick moisture (trying different brands) and am happy with all of them so far. Acts as a sunblock (50spf) and sucks the sweat off your body. In the slightest breezes it really cools you off.


PS: NEVER wear cotton in the winter, it loses ALL its insulation value when wet. It could be deadly in the winter. Its just heavy & uncomfortable in the summer when wet.

 

[jedi]

Thanks for the lessons learned. Took some real humility to post this valuable info.

why humility?

@melensdad
nah I'll skip that stove. I have a propane stove and also a tri fuel pocket stove but prefer the grill instead, especially for what we were doing.