BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
As many of you know, several citizens have fought back against robbers in Marion Co recently. This has resulted in 2 robbery suspects killed and one injured and apprehended. It also, unfortunately, resulted in one victim being injured. Two of these incidents were on video, which is extremely helpful in determining what worked and what didn't. As I'd vastly prefer the good guys to win and to win without being injured themselves, I'll pass on some observations. Note this is not to criticize anyone. These people were incredibly brave and did the best they could under pressure.
1) Off body carry is bad. The nerds who study this stuff says it takes about .4 seconds for a human to recognize a threat. If you are non-compliant, moving in directions the suspect is telling you not to move, etc. you cost yourself that .4 seconds. That's a lifetime, perhaps literally, in a gun fight. This is a fantastic argument against off body carry of any kind. If you must go to your gun while under the observation of someone willing to do you harm, your chances of prevailing go down.
2) Whoever hits first usually wins. This is why I keep harping on you folks to carry whatever you are fastest with from the holster into the "A" box with, and to not worry so much about capacity, caliber (between the common duty or carry calibers), etc.
3) Most gun fights are still over, one way or the other, within 3-4 rounds. Even in instances were more rounds are fired, and even with more hits, review of the incident shows the fight was actually over in the first few shots. When you are amped up, don't have a clear view of your opponent as they seek cover, etc. you may not realize the fight is over and keep putting rounds down range until YOU realize the fight is over from your limited perspective (as opposed to an overhead camera with no obstruction to see what the bad guy is actually doing). Not one of these fights' outcome would have changed if the good guy had been armed with a 6 shot revolver (and, actually, some of them may have been armed with exactly that)
4) Guns can be disabled, even if they are 100% reliable mechanically prior to the event. Related to #3, if the very first round strikes the base plate of your magazine and dumps your ammo on the ground, do you have a plan? Or are you going to keep pointing and pulling the trigger wondering why you're absorbing rounds but not sending any back down range? I'm sure the trainers on here can tell you that in force on force, people don't always realize their firearm is out of commission and don't do any malfunction drills on it. I've personally watched an experienced leo "shoot" someone with a simunition, have the slide lock back on a FTF, and never notice he's covering the guy with a non-functional firearm. Tunnel vision means you may not note the difference in appearance. Train on malfunction drills to the point you can instantly react to a malfunction (which is something I need to work on, as I've been neglecting it for awhile and this reminder is for me as much as for anyone else) and HAVE A BACKUP SOMETHING...BACKUP gun, BACKUP mag...something to get you back in the fight.
5) If the bad guy knows where you are, get off the "X". You have to move, and you should be training to do so.
6) If you can't set up an ambush, speed matters. A lot. A tenth of a second may mean the difference between getting a shot off or catching a round yourself. Practice at various distances. At near contact, you don't need a sight picture. Learn to fire from a retention position and on the swing up from the holster. Ideally you can unholster and set up prior to the bad guy knowing you are a threat (such as complying until he moves on to the next person and isn't looking at you any longer), but you cannot count on that, so be fast. Being fast requires practice of proper technique and good equipment.
1) Off body carry is bad. The nerds who study this stuff says it takes about .4 seconds for a human to recognize a threat. If you are non-compliant, moving in directions the suspect is telling you not to move, etc. you cost yourself that .4 seconds. That's a lifetime, perhaps literally, in a gun fight. This is a fantastic argument against off body carry of any kind. If you must go to your gun while under the observation of someone willing to do you harm, your chances of prevailing go down.
2) Whoever hits first usually wins. This is why I keep harping on you folks to carry whatever you are fastest with from the holster into the "A" box with, and to not worry so much about capacity, caliber (between the common duty or carry calibers), etc.
3) Most gun fights are still over, one way or the other, within 3-4 rounds. Even in instances were more rounds are fired, and even with more hits, review of the incident shows the fight was actually over in the first few shots. When you are amped up, don't have a clear view of your opponent as they seek cover, etc. you may not realize the fight is over and keep putting rounds down range until YOU realize the fight is over from your limited perspective (as opposed to an overhead camera with no obstruction to see what the bad guy is actually doing). Not one of these fights' outcome would have changed if the good guy had been armed with a 6 shot revolver (and, actually, some of them may have been armed with exactly that)
4) Guns can be disabled, even if they are 100% reliable mechanically prior to the event. Related to #3, if the very first round strikes the base plate of your magazine and dumps your ammo on the ground, do you have a plan? Or are you going to keep pointing and pulling the trigger wondering why you're absorbing rounds but not sending any back down range? I'm sure the trainers on here can tell you that in force on force, people don't always realize their firearm is out of commission and don't do any malfunction drills on it. I've personally watched an experienced leo "shoot" someone with a simunition, have the slide lock back on a FTF, and never notice he's covering the guy with a non-functional firearm. Tunnel vision means you may not note the difference in appearance. Train on malfunction drills to the point you can instantly react to a malfunction (which is something I need to work on, as I've been neglecting it for awhile and this reminder is for me as much as for anyone else) and HAVE A BACKUP SOMETHING...BACKUP gun, BACKUP mag...something to get you back in the fight.
5) If the bad guy knows where you are, get off the "X". You have to move, and you should be training to do so.
6) If you can't set up an ambush, speed matters. A lot. A tenth of a second may mean the difference between getting a shot off or catching a round yourself. Practice at various distances. At near contact, you don't need a sight picture. Learn to fire from a retention position and on the swing up from the holster. Ideally you can unholster and set up prior to the bad guy knowing you are a threat (such as complying until he moves on to the next person and isn't looking at you any longer), but you cannot count on that, so be fast. Being fast requires practice of proper technique and good equipment.
