LEO run in 2 times in 30 min.

[stiffy]

I was not going to post this but i cant sleep right now... Over the weekend i was riding with a friend back to my place from broadripple, she was stopped by metro on kessler for a burnt headlight. He did the normal routine asker her if she had been drinking, leaned in to smell her breath and all that good stuff. After he decided she was ok he moved on to me. i told him that i had a couple beers so he asked for my ID. At that point i told him that i had my carry weapon on me(i didnt want to reach for the wallet and risk him seeing the gun). He asked where it was, i told him on my back. He asked that i pull it out slowly and hand it to him. I leaned over so it was completly visible and handed it to him. he went back to his car with the gun and both licenses for about 5 min. He brought it back unloaded and said have a nice night. We stopped and bought a new bulb but did not put it in at the store because i couldnt fit my hands behind the housing... anyway a mccordsville car ended up turning around and following us for a couple miles and hit his lights one house before mine. he asked for her license and registration, as she was getting it out she told him we were pulled over about 20 min ago for the headlight. i told him i had my carry weapon. he asked what it was, i said a 9mm. he asked what brand, i told him then he handed her stuff back and left without checking anything...

Those are the only run ins ive had and i didnt feel uncomfotable at any point. they were both polite and didnt even write a ticket for the headlight. ill have to remember to get names next time...

 

[1032JBT]

Glad to hear the encounters went ok. Now others will be on here soon complaining about you being disarmed and the first officer checkng your gun. But just remember.......all that really matters is YOU felt ok with how things went down, it matters not what they think.

 

[stiffy]

I'm 26 so i would expect to have trouble with them. I don't mind letting him check it... i guess. Having me get out of the car like some of the others have posted or a gun being drawn would be overboard in my book. I just thought of this... he did comment on me flipping the map light on my side and keeping my hands on my knees (wheel if im driving) thats just what i do anythime i get pulled over... not sure where it comes from... just feels like the right way to handle it.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I was not going to post this but i cant sleep right now... Over the weekend i was riding with a friend back to my place from broadripple, she was stopped by metro on kessler for a burnt headlight. He did the normal routine asker her if she had been drinking, leaned in to smell her breath and all that good stuff. After he decided she was ok he moved on to me. i told him that i had a couple beers so he asked for my ID. At that point i told him that i had my carry weapon on me(i didnt want to reach for the wallet and risk him seeing the gun). He asked where it was, i told him on my back. He asked that i pull it out slowly and hand it to him. I leaned over so it was completly visible and handed it to him. he went back to his car with the gun and both licenses for about 5 min. He brought it back unloaded and said have a nice night. We stopped and bought a new bulb but did not put it in at the store because i couldnt fit my hands behind the housing... anyway a mccordsville car ended up turning around and following us for a couple miles and hit his lights one house before mine. he asked for her license and registration, as she was getting it out she told him we were pulled over about 20 min ago for the headlight. i told him i had my carry weapon. he asked what it was, i said a 9mm. he asked what brand, i told him then he handed her stuff back and left without checking anything...

Those are the only run ins ive had and i didnt feel uncomfotable at any point. they were both polite and didnt even write a ticket for the headlight. ill have to remember to get names next time...

Why exactly would you have the need to produce ID in the first place?
So what if you had been drinking?
No harm in getting a ride home.

 

[stiffy]

Why exactly would you have the need to produce ID in the first place?
So what if you had been drinking?
No harm in getting a ride home.

I'm under the impression that in indiana you have to produce it if they ask for it... but really there was no reason. i look young maybe he thought i wasnt 21 and could hit me for minor consumption? Although i only had a couple and was capable of driving... taking a ride from someone that has had nothing is always a better option.

 

[RA8]

I was not going to post this but i cant sleep right now... Over the weekend i was riding with a friend back to my place from broadripple, she was stopped by metro on kessler for a burnt headlight. He did the normal routine asker her if she had been drinking, leaned in to smell her breath and all that good stuff. After he decided she was ok he moved on to me. i told him that i had a couple beers so he asked for my ID. At that point i told him that i had my carry weapon on me(i didnt want to reach for the wallet and risk him seeing the gun). He asked where it was, i told him on my back. He asked that i pull it out slowly and hand it to him. I leaned over so it was completly visible and handed it to him. he went back to his car with the gun and both licenses for about 5 min. He brought it back unloaded and said have a nice night. We stopped and bought a new bulb but did not put it in at the store because i couldnt fit my hands behind the housing... anyway a mccordsville car ended up turning around and following us for a couple miles and hit his lights one house before mine. he asked for her license and registration, as she was getting it out she told him we were pulled over about 20 min ago for the headlight. i told him i had my carry weapon. he asked what it was, i said a 9mm. he asked what brand, i told him then he handed her stuff back and left without checking anything...

Those are the only run ins ive had and i didnt feel uncomfotable at any point. they were both polite and didnt even write a ticket for the headlight. ill have to remember to get names next time...

Ive had great experiences from just about every lafayette/purdue cop. Besides one exception. One lafayette officer refused to believe my permit was valid, and made me sit on the curb for about 20 minutes while he checked.

 

[RA8]

Glad to hear the encounters went ok. Now others will be on here soon complaining about you being disarmed and the first officer checkng your gun. But just remember.......all that really matters is YOU felt ok with how things went down, it matters not what they think.

I actually LIKE when they check my gun. They only run it to see if its stolen. If they did this more often, stolen guns will be returned more often, and the people who stole them will be arrested.
Ive never stolen a gun, and they arent keeping it. we should encourage this. Pretend its your car, and they are running your plates. how else would they return stolen cars without them or the VIN?

 

[Indecision]

Glad everything worked out well for ya.

 

[zebov]

Handing a loaded handgun over a person in a cramped car to someone putting their hand in the window seems awkward to me. I probably would have asked if I could unload it first. I dunno, I don't like handing off loaded firearms between people... probably something that's stuck from my childhood years shooting with the extended family.

 

[Scutter01]

Glad to hear the encounters went ok. Now others will be on here soon complaining about you being disarmed and the first officer checkng your gun. But just remember.......all that really matters is YOU felt ok with how things went down, it matters not what they think.

On the whole, I'd prefer not to be passing a loaded weapon back and forth through my car window, though.

 

[Indy317]

Why exactly would you have the need to produce ID in the first place?

I'm under the impression that in indiana you have to produce it if they ask for it... but really there was no reason. i look young maybe he thought i wasnt 21 and could hit me for minor consumption?

One lafayette officer refused to believe my permit was valid, and made me sit on the curb for about 20 minutes while he checked.

The only time someone is _required_ to identify themselves is for an ordinance or infraction violation:

IC 34-28-5-3.5 Refusal to identify self
Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's:
(1) name, address, and date of birth; or
(2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;
to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.

Now, if the officer thought the person looked to be under 21 years old, the officer has the right to detain the individual and investigate the crime of illegal possession (for alcohol). Technically, as soon as an ID is shown, and it is confirmed the person is 21, they should be free to leave. If you refuse to show an ID, then if the officer honestly believes the person is under 21, and they have probable cause to believe the person illegally consumed alcohol, they could arrest them. Obviously the charges would be dismissed in court later on.

Now with having the gun, this is the gray area that courts around the country are weighing in on. Right now, it seems to be in states where OCing is legal, no permit needed, and cops are detaining people when there is no violation of law. In Indiana, carrying is illegal in any manner, unless you have a permit and/or are a member of an exempted group. However, even if you have a permit, it still doesn't mean you are legal. People can get convicted of crimes which would negate their right to own/possess a handgun, yet due to paperwork issues, whatever, they still have that permit. Then the question becomes: If an officer stops someone with a gun, they display a permit, can the officer still investigate to make sure that:
#1: The permit is valid (dispatchers can do this via a computer)?
#2: Even if the computer system shows the permit is valid, can the officer then run a criminal history check to make sure this person wasn't one who has slipped through the cracks and some how got and/or still has a permit they shouldn't?

These are questions that will only be answered when judges rule on them. Until then, they are open to interpretation and are not set in stone as of yet.

So what if you had been drinking?
No harm in getting a ride home.

As already discussed, there could be an under-21 issue. However, another issue would be if the passenger looks so intoxicated, that further investigation needs to be done. Or maybe the driver appeared so nervous, that the officer though something more was up. My wife is kinda like this...just can't handle stress at all. She crashed her car recently and was a total wreck. Thankfully I was close-by so I was able to help her out. An LEO would have thought she was crazy, (even I do when she ends up like she did), but some people are just like that. It is always best to investigate a little more if possible. Maybe such a person is being held against their will? Maybe they are wanted? Etc.. While one could get arrested for public intoxication in this instance, there was an appeals court ruling a while back where the judges basically wrote that the PI statue be over-looked when someone is doing the right thing by not driving.

That being said, I wouldn't care about the law so much. I would worry more about liability/trying to protect someone more than making an arrest. If an officer makes a legal stop, those people are under the officer's control and the officer is responsible for them in various manners. If passengers want to leave, they can. However, if an severely intoxicated person tries to leave, an officer might have to detain them and have them taken to the hospital/or arrest them for public intoxication since they might be a danger to themselves (walking/falling into the street, passing out when it is zero degrees outside, etc.). Even if the person doesn't try to leave the scene, if they appear to be so intoxicated, to the point they don't know what is going on around them...an officer has a decision to make. Does the officer let the totally passed out drunk female go, taking five guys word that they are her friends? What if it is just one guy? There are many reasons why officers may try to pry into things, even if they appear non-criminal. It isn't that the officer is just trying to find someone to arrest. If I had a daughter and she had been drugged and was in a car full of guys who were for the most part sober, I would rather her go to jail for PI and/or the hospital for evaluation rather than gang raped.

Just something to think about when viewing the job of an LEO.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Now others will be on here soon complaining about you being disarmed and the first officer checkng your gun.

Well, fpd, I think it is more about the reckless circumstances that the officers created. By their waving around guns in public they put the public at large at risk of serious bodily injury or death.

E.g. the GIMP that stopped me in Broad Ripple had no idea how a 1911 worked. While he let me keep my other two carry guns, he waved my 1911 around at passing traffic, dog-walkers, joggers, moms with strollers and bicyclists on 54th and on College. Oh, yeah, he pointed it at my leg too.

I have a friend who has a similar story about ISP and a Walther P99. ISP could not figure out how to release the magazine and pointed it at the stopped car, traffic on I-65, the trooper's leg and belly, inter alia.

I just wish the police would have enough training* to realize that the less you handle firearms the less chance of an AD or ND.

I actually LIKE when they check my gun

Ummm, I don't. No basis to do so and creates a risk to public safety. Put me in the "no" column.


*Yes, I know most guns are not "gun people" and have minimal amounts of training time

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Glad to hear the encounters went ok. Now others will be on here soon complaining about you being disarmed and the first officer checkng your gun. But just remember.......all that really matters is YOU felt ok with how things went down, it matters not what they think.

GRUMBLEGRUMBLEMUTHA!!!JBT'SGRUMBLESONOFAGRRR!!!!

 

[Pami]

*Yes, I know most guns are not "gun people" and have minimal amounts of training time

[inject humor]
I thought all guns weren't any kind of people. That's why they can't shoot themselves.
[/inject humor]

And to the OP: thanks for sharing this relatively positive encounter!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Was going with "cops", but I like to keep it interesting.

Voice mail and typing=bad combination

 

[haldir]

I guess I am the proverbial fat middle aged white guy because, although I have been pulled over a few times over the years, I was always treated well and never ended up with a ticket.
Over in Mishawka, I got pulled over for a burnt out headlight and the officer pulled me over just to let me know. I didn't even notice any sniffing. He seemed sincere to me. I ended up in the back of a squad car here in Goshen a few years ago because I had expired tags and had forgotten my wallet so no license. He just got enough info to positively ID me over the radio then gave me a warning to get my registration renewed. What was really surprising about getting off on that one was I had been an arse and wouldn't let the officer change lanes in front of me, that was why he was behind me and saw the expired plates. I do the yes, sir, thank you sir and don't act like an butthead. I think that goes a long way with them.

 

[wtfd661]

Well, fpd, I think it is more about the reckless circumstances that the officers created. By their waving around guns in public they put the public at large at risk of serious bodily injury or death.

Damn Kirk, I didn't realize from the OP that you were there and witnessed that, holy cow that puts the whole incident into a new light But I am glad that you were able to take a positive OP about how the person who was involved thought it went and change it to a bash on LEO's good job!!

 

[Bill of Rights]

Well, fpd, I think it is more about the reckless circumstances that the officers created. By their waving around guns in public they put the public at large at risk of serious bodily injury or death.

Damn Kirk, I didn't realize from the OP that you were there and witnessed that, holy cow that puts the whole incident into a new light But I am glad that you were able to take a positive OP about how the person who was involved thought it went and change it to a bash on LEO's good job!!

WTFD, I don't see his post as a bash on LEOs. Personally, if I'm asked to hand over my firearm, I'll be dropping the mag as it leaves the holster and probably racking the slide back to hand it over unloaded, action open.

I don't speak for Kirk and I hope he'll correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think he was probably referring to the passing of a loaded firearm as being by definition reckless, no matter who's doing it. Similarly, if one person is passing a firearm to another, esp. one without any external mechanical safety other than it taking a deliberate pull of the trigger to fire it, (Yes, I'm thinking of Glocks specifically but not exclusively), all it takes is a slipped grip and a slight fumble and a round is fired in a random direction (due to the lost grip)

Again, ANYONE can do have this happen. The only thing that makes this particular situation seem like a bash on LEOs is that no one else has the backing of the law to compel someone to hand over their firearm.

To the OP: Did the officer ask if you'd been drinking or did you volunteer the info? I agree with telling the truth if asked, but I see no need to volunteer that you've engaged in completely lawful behavior.

Just my , you don't have to agree (I have no problem with it if you do, though! )

Blessings,
Bill

 

[wtfd661]

Sorry Bill, but you don't think his statement of them "waving around guns in public" isn't a little inflammatory and then going on to speak about his negative experiences with the "GIMP" that he dealt with isn't a little bashing. I know when I'm not at a incident then I'm not going to judge what occurred or didn't occur as if I had been there. Since the OP seemed to feel that it was a positive experience then my assumption would have been, and is, that the officer handled the gun professionally and not recklessly, therefore didn't needlessly endanger the public. But what the heck do I know, I've only been doing this type of work for over 22 yrs now.

 

[PatMcGroyne]

Had it happen to me

All turned out well when the Officer determined that my cane, beside me in the front-seat, was not a very lethal weapon. Word came in to our Vet's Post that a cop (yes, derisive, in this case only) was trolling at the byways near our club, seeking DDs. He had a new 'flash-light / alcohol detector' and was checking out most cars that came down the road. For any reason. Our Club has an OpenCarry policy (NO concealed allowed) so the cop was pretty sure I was carrying. He asked, and I showed my G-, released the magazine and put it up on the dash, locked the slide, and handed him my pink slip and the gun. "Why did you remove that magazine?" "Because accidents happen; that weapon will still fire, so keep it safe." My numbers all matched, and the meeting went no further. We both learned something valuable. Pat