K-9 fact pattern..legal search?

[rw496]

Based on a true story:
Traffic stop for a presumably lawful violation. While rookie is speaking with the driver, partner/FTO walks K-9 around the vehicle, which is a rental car. K-9 indicates for the presence of drugs and a search is performed without consent. Search reveals a trunk full of an exotic drug, which the K-9 is not certified to detect. No other contraband was found..class A felony charges follow. Is this a legal search?

My thoughts as I replayed these events:
-They might have been smoking weed on the trip
-The unusual drug may have been in close contact with other common drugs
-the officers were still acting on probable cause based on a k-9 indication regardless of what was found

Counter thoughts:
-A K-9 will indicate on a majority of rental cars
-or, how can the dog hit on something it's not certified to detect; it's gotta get tossed out
-I've nevere even seen that stuff before

 

[MikeDVB]

Is the search legal? If the K-9 indicated, as I understand it, that provides PC to search. Even if they don't find what they were originally looking for, I do believe, they can still use what they do find against you.

A quick example - say they have RS that somebody in your house is being attacked/injured/hurt so they come in. In the process they find out the person wasn't being hurt but was just 'play fighting' (and is fine) but along the way they find a pound of marijuana on the table... They're still going to be able to arrest you for that.

Ultimately I'm not an attorney - but it's not reasonable, imho, to believe that you could pick up a rental car with a trunk full of illicit substances without anybody knowing and here are a few reasons that would run through my mind:

• It would have to have been left by the previous renter and it's unlikely that anybody with such substances would 'leave them behind'.
• The rental car place, at least every one I've ever been to, inspects the vehicle upon return and cleans said vehicle including the trunk.
• You're supposed to inspect the vehicle before you take delivery and drive off with it.

The K-9 hit gave them PC to search, and in that search they turned up the illegal substances. I would think it would hinge upon whether the officer caused the K-9 to indicate or not, but good luck trying to prove that.

I have not slept at a holiday inn lately, and I am not a lawyer.

 

[rw496]

That was kinda what I was thinking. They still had PC based on the indication. I'm sure Kirk will be along sometime to offer a different perspective.

 

[$mooth]

Is the search legal? If the K-9 indicated, as I understand it, that provides PC to search. Even if they don't find what they were originally looking for, I do believe, they can still use what they do find against you.

A quick example - say they have RS that somebody in your house is being attacked/injured/hurt so they come in. In the process they find out the person wasn't being hurt but was just 'play fighting' (and is fine) but along the way they find a pound of marijuana on the table... They're still going to be able to arrest you for that.

Ultimately I'm not an attorney - but it's not reasonable, imho, to believe that you could pick up a rental car with a trunk full of illicit substances without anybody knowing and here are a few reasons that would run through my mind:

• It would have to have been left by the previous renter and it's unlikely that anybody with such substances would 'leave them behind'.
• The rental car place, at least every one I've ever been to, inspects the vehicle upon return and cleans said vehicle including the trunk.
• You're supposed to inspect the vehicle before you take delivery and drive off with it.

The K-9 hit gave them PC to search, and in that search they turned up the illegal substances. I would think it would hinge upon whether the officer caused the K-9 to indicate or not, but good luck trying to prove that.

I have not slept at a holiday inn lately, and I am not a lawyer.

Although I agree with most of your post, I do think it's feasible to have something left behind in a rental car. As I used to visit a lot of military installations, I try my best to check out every cubbie, the spare tire well, and under the seats. I have found many items that should have been caught be the rental company cleaning it out. In DC, I got a hatchback with a trunk full of hay. It should have been impossible to miss, but the guy cleaning it never looked back there.
Most people do not look as closely as I do, however. I can see someone forgetting a pipe under the seat or dropping something that fell in storage spot in the trunk that most wouldn't notice.

 

[Electronrider]

They can run the K-9 around the outside of the vehicle without any kind of PC.

Once the dog hits, they now have PC to search.

Once this happens, and contraband is found, you will spend thousands and thousands of dollars to try to get out of it.

Moral of the story is to thoroughly search any vehicle you are driving before taking responsibilty for said vehicle.

 

[rw496]

IMO, a K-9 will indicate for the presence of drugs on most rentals. They just about all smell like weed and K-9 noses are sensitive. Maybe a reasonable argument, not against the credibility of the dog, but of the prudence of granting PC from a dog indication on a rental. On the pther hand, the expectation of privacy is lesser in a vehicle, maybe more so in a rented vehicle.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Officer Chompy hits on cars all the time that have zero contraband in them. The answer is always there must have been something in there before

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Based on what you have advised, search will likely held as valid.

I'm sure Kirk will be along sometime to offer a different perspective.

It is no secret that I have called for Chompy reforms (batting averages, expanding IRE 617 to Chompy sniffs, etc.), even crying out to the Indiana Supreme Court, and that I find the instant magic evolution theory (*magic* the dogs can now smell pills *magic*) is complete and utter nonsense. However, that search will likely be upheld.

 

[MikeDVB]

Although I agree with most of your post, I do think it's feasible to have something left behind in a rental car.

Something small, but not a trunk-full.

I'm not saying a dog wouldn't have a legitimate hit on a rental car, I just don't see a trunk full of illicit substances being left behind and overlooked by everybody at the rental place as well as the new renter.

I can see someone forgetting a pipe under the seat or dropping something that fell in storage spot in the trunk that most wouldn't notice.

This for sure.

I'm sure there is somebody dumb enough to leave that much in the trunk and I'm sure that there has been a 'perfect scenario' of events that has caused somebody else to take the fall for it but I don't think it would be common.

 

[MikeDVB]

It is no secret that I have called for Chompy reforms (batting averages, expanding IRE 617 to Chompy sniffs, etc.), even crying out to the Indiana Supreme Court, and that I find the instant magic evolution theory (*magic* the dogs can now smell pills *magic*) is complete and utter nonsense. However, that search will likely be upheld.

IMHO the problem is that the dogs cannot talk or testify. There's no way to know if they're actually smelling something in the vehicle or something that used to be in the vehicle or if it's just a false hit coerced by the handler.

At the end of the day - if they pull the K-9 out and you have anything in the car you wouldn't want found you're probably SoL.

 

[Bunnykid68]

IMHO the problem is that the dogs cannot talk or testify. There's no way to know if they're actually smelling something in the vehicle or something that used to be in the vehicle or if it's just a false hit coerced by the handler.

At the end of the day - if they pull the K-9 out and you have anything in the car you wouldn't want found you're probably SoL.

This being the primary problem. Officer Chompy is never wrong, even when he is wrong.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

At the end of the day - if they pull the K-9 out and you have anything in the car you wouldn't want found you're probably SoL.

Depends. There is always a scope argument.

However, I understand what you are saying. I had them tell me, under oath, that dogs can magically evolve the ability to smell pills.

 

[Benny]

Officer Chompy hits on cars all the time that have zero contraband in them. The answer is always there must have been something in there before

If a cop wants to search your car, he/she will. End of story.

Having a dog just means there will be less time spent in court if the person decides to file a lawsuit.